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Don't want to be rude or something, but - got to the story mission on KGB route where you need to evac your team. Got 2 enemy agents & endless spawns.
After 2 hours I gave up on this shit. 3 medikits = 3 heal for the whole fight, 3 smoke grenades (or frag grenades as I reloaded & tried different setup) which does not change a lot...
Either you disable endless respawn of enemies on scripted fight mission or change medikits to endless usage, this mission will remain an exercise in masochism.
Sorry to say, but it the 1st time I will do a refund. This is not my kind of game.
Post edited August 17, 2018 by Yunipuma
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Yunipuma: Don't want to be rude or something, but - got to the story mission on KGB route where you need to evac your team. Got 2 enemy agents & endless spawns.
After 2 hours I gave up on this shit. 3 medikits = 3 heal for the whole fight, 3 smoke grenades (or frag grenades as I reloaded & tried different setup) which does not change a lot...
Either you disable endless respawn of enemies on scripted fight mission or change medikits to endless usage, this mission will remain an exercise in masochism.
Sorry to say, but it the 1st time I will do a refund. This is not my kind of game.
I regret that youre leaving but understand your motivation very well. Its a shame this game is quite unpolished in many ways and it seems the key decisions made by the devs are the very things we as players simply are not able to deal with. Endless reinforcements and the line of sight issue that even got explained away are the biggest issues right now.

If reinforcements took longer and longer as it makes sense that the enemy needs to bring them in from further away and if they started with smaller groups initially like a scout party it would improve things greatly.

Good bye.
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SarahAustin: I regret that youre leaving but understand your motivation very well. Its a shame this game is quite unpolished in many ways and it seems the key decisions made by the devs are the very things we as players simply are not able to deal with. Endless reinforcements and the line of sight issue that even got explained away are the biggest issues right now.

If reinforcements took longer and longer as it makes sense that the enemy needs to bring them in from further away and if they started with smaller groups initially like a scout party it would improve things greatly.

Good bye.
That`s not a bad idea, pace out the reinforcements while still adding the pressure increasingly.

I`m sorry he`s leaving too, but I have myself felt this frustration. I`m hanging on, hoping that the patch changes will make it much less frustrating. I, especially after another dumpster fire combat that didn`t make sense, do find myself wanting to go back to Silent Storm or Xcom2 though...
Post edited August 17, 2018 by Socratatus
In this mission I also has similar issues.

After a few tries I decided to turn tail and just get the hell out of there.
Out the back and around the side. I still got shot from half the map away with a wall between us.
I evac'ed after killing 2 guards and restoring awareness around the group.

After completing the mission I decided it was ment to be so hard for story and a sense of emmediacy and danger.
I understand the Frustration, I feel the same slowly with this horrible combat system.

My covered agent has a clear shot on the enemy agent, who stands so damn placed...that he cant take him out.
So I can only trigger combat and well...the silenced .45 could kill him with a headshot....but does only 5 damage
There is no destricption how or why it is doing that.

But well hey...at least the enemy can fire across the map, through walls and roofs and kill Kodiak.

Well at least I can give them 30 days on GOG system of refund eh?
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Andariel89: I understand the Frustration, I feel the same slowly with this horrible combat system.

My covered agent has a clear shot on the enemy agent, who stands so damn placed...that he cant take him out.
So I can only trigger combat and well...the silenced .45 could kill him with a headshot....but does only 5 damage
There is no destricption how or why it is doing that.

But well hey...at least the enemy can fire across the map, through walls and roofs and kill Kodiak.

Well at least I can give them 30 days on GOG system of refund eh?
Well it kinda is explained why you only did so little damage. Enemy agents have full awareness from start, so they dodge even shots coming from concealment basically. The only way to shootykill an agent silently is a careful breach with silenced weapons or (not sure if it exists) a perk that ignores awareness
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SarahAustin: Endless reinforcements and the line of sight issue that even got explained away are the biggest issues right now.
Nobody "explained line of sight away". We're working on improvements to this stuff as we speak.

Edit: In case you're referring to this blog post - the explanations of the mechanics there aren't supposed to justify the status quo, just explain how it came to be. You will also find promises of imminent changes there, so please stay tuned.
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Andariel89: My covered agent has a clear shot on the enemy agent, who stands so damn placed...that he cant take him out.
So I can only trigger combat and well...the silenced .45 could kill him with a headshot....but does only 5 damage
There is no destricption how or why it is doing that.
Well, the reason it only deals so little damage is that enemy agents start out with full awareness, just like your own agents, so your first attacks will inevitably deal minimal damage against enemy agents. You will definitely deal full damage if, e.g. another one of your agents depletes the target's awareness with auto fire or a flashbang first.

We really hoped this stuff would be explained well enough but clearly it did not. We'll try to make these things more clear.
Post edited August 17, 2018 by F4LL0UT
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SarahAustin: Endless reinforcements and the line of sight issue that even got explained away are the biggest issues right now.
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F4LL0UT: Nobody "explained line of sight away". We're working on improvements to this stuff as we speak.

Edit: In case you're referring to this blog post - the explanations of the mechanics there aren't supposed to justify the status quo, just explain how it came to be. You will also find promises of imminent changes there, so please stay tuned.
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Andariel89: My covered agent has a clear shot on the enemy agent, who stands so damn placed...that he cant take him out.
So I can only trigger combat and well...the silenced .45 could kill him with a headshot....but does only 5 damage
There is no destricption how or why it is doing that.
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F4LL0UT: Well, the reason it only deals so little damage is that enemy agents start out with full awareness, just like your own agents, so your first attacks will inevitably deal minimal damage against enemy agents. You will definitely deal full damage if, e.g. another one of your agents depletes the target's awareness with auto fire or a flashbang first.

We really hoped this stuff would be explained well enough but clearly it did not. We'll try to make these things more clear.
Please don't just make it clear, take all the feedback about combat and add optional ways of dealing with the problems your players see :)
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F4LL0UT: Nobody "explained line of sight away". We're working on improvements to this stuff as we speak.

Edit: In case you're referring to this blog post - the explanations of the mechanics there aren't supposed to justify the status quo, just explain how it came to be. You will also find promises of imminent changes there, so please stay tuned.

Well, the reason it only deals so little damage is that enemy agents start out with full awareness, just like your own agents, so your first attacks will inevitably deal minimal damage against enemy agents. You will definitely deal full damage if, e.g. another one of your agents depletes the target's awareness with auto fire or a flashbang first.

We really hoped this stuff would be explained well enough but clearly it did not. We'll try to make these things more clear.
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IFW: Please don't just make it clear, take all the feedback about combat and add optional ways of dealing with the problems your players see :)
Optional being the keyword here.
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IFW: Please don't just make it clear, take all the feedback about combat and add optional ways of dealing with the problems your players see :)
Well, I'm pretty sure that in each post I say that we are working on actually improving the game. Some stuff will probably be added as options, as you said. The explanations of the status quo are a bonus.
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Swedrami: Optional being the keyword here.
Don't worry. We're trying our best to make sure that none of the changes will make the game worse to those who already like it.
Post edited August 17, 2018 by F4LL0UT
For what it's worth I finished this mission on hard on first try. All of my agents were pretty wounded but they all made it through. I'm not trying to dismiss others feelings and concerns about it just adding a bit of a counterbalance to say I think the mission is fine. I don't know what difficulty OP played at but on hard difficulty I'm ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
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Gliese58i: For what it's worth I finished this mission on hard on first try. All of my agents were pretty wounded but they all made it through. I'm not trying to dismiss others feelings and concerns about it just adding a bit of a counterbalance to say I think the mission is fine. I don't know what difficulty OP played at but on hard difficulty I'm ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
OP played on medium difficulty. And did it exactly because he is NOT ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
That's my whole point - if developers create a game which punishes player for starting open combat, then they MUST give player an option to NOT engage in open combat. In agent elimination missions there IS such an option, but in this particular mission (which is part of story and CANNOT BE AVOIDED) there is no such an option. So yes, I find this game's core design decisions bad. IF developers change this approach I'll buy the again again, but now - it's farewell.
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Gliese58i: For what it's worth I finished this mission on hard on first try. All of my agents were pretty wounded but they all made it through. I'm not trying to dismiss others feelings and concerns about it just adding a bit of a counterbalance to say I think the mission is fine. I don't know what difficulty OP played at but on hard difficulty I'm ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
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Yunipuma: OP played on medium difficulty. And did it exactly because he is NOT ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
That's my whole point - if developers create a game which punishes player for starting open combat, then they MUST give player an option to NOT engage in open combat. In agent elimination missions there IS such an option, but in this particular mission (which is part of story and CANNOT BE AVOIDED) there is no such an option. So yes, I find this game's core design decisions bad. IF developers change this approach I'll buy the again again, but now - it's farewell.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I think that the experience should be scaled based on difficulty and surch a curveball might not be appropriate when not playing on hard difficulty. For example the starting enemy forces could be reduced to only 1 enemy agent and less grunts and reinforcements could be toned down a bit perhaps. Then again everyone has their own preference for difficulty, I'm sure some people playing on easy or normal are ok with the level of challenge they're facing.

A big thing for me in this mission was that I had an agent that had enough HP (boosted by perk selection on level up) to do a takedown on one of the enemy agents that spawned right next to me. My other two agents were then able to each kill one enemy grunt on turn 1 since they don't have any awareness or cover at that point. Getting 3 kills right of the bat was immensely helpful but after that I still had to make a run for the extraction point trying to break line of sight as much as possible to avoid enemy fire.
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SarahAustin: Endless reinforcements and the line of sight issue that even got explained away are the biggest issues right now.
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F4LL0UT: Nobody "explained line of sight away". We're working on improvements to this stuff as we speak.

Edit: In case you're referring to this blog post - the explanations of the mechanics there aren't supposed to justify the status quo, just explain how it came to be. You will also find promises of imminent changes there, so please stay tuned.
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Andariel89: My covered agent has a clear shot on the enemy agent, who stands so damn placed...that he cant take him out.
So I can only trigger combat and well...the silenced .45 could kill him with a headshot....but does only 5 damage
There is no destricption how or why it is doing that.
avatar
F4LL0UT: Well, the reason it only deals so little damage is that enemy agents start out with full awareness, just like your own agents, so your first attacks will inevitably deal minimal damage against enemy agents. You will definitely deal full damage if, e.g. another one of your agents depletes the target's awareness with auto fire or a flashbang first.

We really hoped this stuff would be explained well enough but clearly it did not. We'll try to make these things more clear.
I meant it more like trying to explain it differently or more clearly while nothing about how Line of Sight works gets changed.
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Yunipuma: OP played on medium difficulty. And did it exactly because he is NOT ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
That's my whole point - if developers create a game which punishes player for starting open combat, then they MUST give player an option to NOT engage in open combat. In agent elimination missions there IS such an option, but in this particular mission (which is part of story and CANNOT BE AVOIDED) there is no such an option. So yes, I find this game's core design decisions bad. IF developers change this approach I'll buy the again again, but now - it's farewell.
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Gliese58i: I'm sorry that you feel that way. I think that the experience should be scaled based on difficulty and surch a curveball might not be appropriate when not playing on hard difficulty. For example the starting enemy forces could be reduced to only 1 enemy agent and less grunts and reinforcements could be toned down a bit perhaps. Then again everyone has their own preference for difficulty, I'm sure some people playing on easy or normal are ok with the level of challenge they're facing.

A big thing for me in this mission was that I had an agent that had enough HP (boosted by perk selection on level up) to do a takedown on one of the enemy agents that spawned right next to me. My other two agents were then able to each kill one enemy grunt on turn 1 since they don't have any awareness or cover at that point. Getting 3 kills right of the bat was immensely helpful but after that I still had to make a run for the extraction point trying to break line of sight as much as possible to avoid enemy fire.
Ok, that's the way I handled that 1st enemy agent too. But then there was no way for me to extract my team alive - enemies just swarmed me up. It's all comes to amount of damage enemies can do compared to amount of damage player's character can inflict. Enemies are always come fresh with full awareness, so my agents can ALWAYS inflict less damage compared to enemies (as my agents' awareness could not regen fast enough).
This is completely unfair masochism - and WITHOUT ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS. You can do this mission ONLY in a ways developers planned, not in your own way.
And that's what game is - creating your OWN way. If I want to see other people way of doing things, I read a good book or watch a good story. INTERACTIVE experience is all about finding YOUR own way.