I'm not using any mod.

oh hey ineffect, any idea if 2.1.0-2.1.5 change any of your guide? anything op been nerfed?
anything glaring that was supposed to stack but didn't been fixed? or vica versa?

or have you not played since all the updates this summer?

I'm considering updating my campaign from 2.0.8 to 2.1.5 (since if I update the game at all that's what it'll do)

Main change is that we can't juggle songs on a bard, so melee sorc became better since he can take care of shaken with frightful and doesn't need dirge. And if you are not a melee sorc, you need one. So either Val melee sorc with someone as a bard or the other way around.
That and Bard11/DD4/Booter4/something1 or Bard8/DD4/Booter6/something 2 is really attractive now. Val does it ok.

That change also brought problems. And main one is the total lack of a decent second frontliner among companions. I guess one would have to run Reg as maybe Scion2/Bard8/DD4/EK6 or Scion2/Sorc4/DD4/EK10 if one is allergic to mercs. Although constantly resurrecting him in the first half of the game will grow old fast. I'd probably go reg sorc route and kept him in town till late since we only really need Frightful from him and that's level 20 in his case. Luckily, He's also one of the few companions that leave the party for his personal quest, so if you abuse exp you will have a level 20 reg around pitax.

Lack of second frontliner? Hmm, wasn't the only valid frontliner always valerie? or was there someone else who is no longer suitable?

Bards used to be able to juggle dirge and inspire courage. I thought dirge was the more important of the two though? Couldn't you just stop using inspire courage?

Although I guess the melee sorcerer was always good, it's just that their charisma wasn't that useful, because your bard, which you always had anyways, could provide dirge for "free" since it didn't "cost" them their courage? Now that dirge isn't free though.... the melee sorcerer makes a lot more sense? But if my MC isn't built as a melee sorcerer, I guess I have to go mercenary for that role, because none of the companions really have the stats for it?

Well, we do need a melee sorc and a bard. In case MC is neither of the two we need a second frontliner. So that's either merc or being more inventive.

And yes, we could just not use inspire courage and do bard8/DD4/Booter6/F1/SF1 Val with ovinrbaane instead since booter would help to compensate and bless is +1. But I would prefer to have the cake and eat it too if at all possible.

Cha was always useful on a melee sorc. It's spell slots if nothing else. And with a monk level it's also AC. And if said sorc is LG it's also saves cause bestow grace is a thing.

As to how to compose the party it really depends on your tolerance to mercs. I generally prefer to use companions if at all possible, so making reg into a melee sorc by 20 is not the worst plan ever and he can use oak to reach reasonable AC by then. Also keeping him in town doesn't exactly cost anything. We already were doing that anyways. Also his racial is a lot less of a problem by then. I'm also reasonably sure that we can cast spells on a magus list without ASF in light armor, so that's at least some benefit from his magus levels. Not much, but hey, better than net negative jaethal inquisitor level.

I don't think you've posted a freebooter companion build of any sort before have you? I guess that's because you're not actually recommend it. heh.

I guess by make use of his cha, I meant by being a sorcerer at all instead of say a sword saint. With dirge being played at all times, sword saint MC (from what I read of your opinions) was just top notch. However if you don't get dirge for free from a bard, suddenly you want a master of charisma for the shaken line of melee feats.

Am I following what you just wrote correctly?

It's the same as it was. We still don't want to waste time and actions on dazzle. It's still dirge for like 90% of the game, just wth bless tossed in. At 20 there is a good argument about adding a melee sorc of some stripe. But we still do take shatter on most everyone cause it's just that good.

So in 2.1.5 you'll almost never benefit from inspire courage? Unless you are level 20 and swap in the melee sorc so your dirge bard can play it? I feel like I ALMOST understand what you're saying.

Then again I love bards, 6 bard party?!?!?! hah.

Well yeah. Inspire courage is now for lategame or 2 bard parties. Given that bless is only marginally worse it's not that hard to give up on it.

Edit. I thought about adding booter4/booter6 bard, but it's kinda situational and booter will come late anyways. Aint sure if I want to actually advise that. Main problem is Val as F1/Bard11/DD4/booter4 is pretty hard to pull off and would probably want to compete with sorc reg for the oak. The build works much better with a motherless TM1/Bard11/DD4/Booter4 merc. I maybe will add reggie sorc just in case someone wants to keep the party as companions real bad.

In the guide it is mentioned Valerie can be used as a Shifter Druid. Is there any build for her in that role? I've tried to work the feyspeaker shifter on her build but all the feats come up online short due to the 1st level of fighter feats she has.

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post664
Val buids into something similar ok-ish, although she has to sacrifice a few feats along the way. Namely, trip ones.

In the last few posts InEffect suggests a SorcVal, SorcReg, BardReg and a BooterBard Motherless mercenary. I know it's a lot to ask but anyone has any pointer on how to build them?

I might do it when I have the time. Probably will happen closer to the new years eve.

Sorc val is more or less in the general guide, except I would go for a monk level and robes in case of unfair.
Bard reg would be something like Scion1/Bard8/DD4/Booter4/Slayer3 or something like that. Sorc reg works better with scion2/Sorc4/DD4/EK10 with oak. He gets frightful at 20. Luckily, reg is one of the few companions that leave the party during the game and can be bumped to your level with the help of that so reg can have level 20 from pitax chapter and on.

Booter bard is easy, TM1/Bard11/DD4/Booter4 or TM1/Bard8/DD4/Booter6. You have yourself a nice frontline and it covers all the bard things. Val can do it ok-ish with F1/Bard11/DD4/Booter4 or F1/Bard8/DD4/Booter6/SF1, although she does compete for oak that way or is a weaker bard by the point you have frightful and don't need a dirge bard. Can also use singing plate, but would have to use shield with it and hence the lead blades will be wasted.

The general thing comes from the fact that song cycle was fixed, so our bards can't sing and dirge at the same time. For most of the game we'll use dirge from a bard and bless. Later on we can add booter to compensate. The dazzle is not efficient and dreadful procs too late. The only other feasible option to apply shaken is having a melee sorc with frightful.

Hello, InEffect!

In your Jaethal undead bard build you wrote"

"Spells:
Inquisitor: Inflict, Cure, Remove Fear, True Strike
Ranger: Lead Blades"

but in this build I can not see Ranger lvls...