'tis ok. She still is a level behind, and that kinda poops on the parade. and it's usable after Vordakai anyways since you need a number of items. Otherwise, empowered necro spells(that shouldn't work, but do) are pretty decent and stinking clouds don't need much. I'd say both are pretty equal

First of all, thanks a lot for this work you do, it helps a lot with build concepts and finding synergies. I found out that I enjoy more creating builds for the characters rather than actually playing the game :D. I have played many D&D but I'm pretty new to PF.
I like the slayer class and I would like to play it, but there are a couple of things about this build you posted that i don't get. I don't see the point with WIS14 stat and such low CHA, as Bard is a CHA based spellcaster he wouldnt be able to cast without CHA gear, I must be wrong about something that I cant see. Besides that intimidate is CHA based. Would id be possible to play it as Angelkin who has a CHA bonus and opens up for Wings?? (sure you loose bite attack).
Finally, I guess the Archae2/DD4 point is: Uncanny Dodge, access to mirror image and STR bonus, but it appears a 6lvl investment which is a great one, sure there are other things that i do not see that make it worthy.

Agains, thanks for all the information from all of your guides and builds, I really enjoy reading them and learning from your builds. As I said I spend more time planning that really playing them.

You get +2wis from motherless. It'd be kinda a waste to ignore it. Int is nice to have for skills. Cha you get enough from those insane +6/+8 to everything items you get showered in shortly past midgame. That wis would best case translate into 12 Cha at the cost of dumped will save. I'd better have my will save all game and since will is the only important save bestow grace would net the same gains.

One thing I'd do on unfair is I'd front-load bard1/DD4 a bit and just taken bard 2 after slayer 10. And I probably would skip dreadful for something else since I'd have dirge bard on unfair anyways, so I'd have opportunist on bard level and crippling on slayer. Same with blindfight since I'd have Jubi anyways. Can't count on it in 'one fits all' build. I'd also probably go bracers+oak+vestment on him since that's a bigger AC ramp.

What bard is really there for is 1 more rogue talent and UD, since it comes in package already. And since we are already there might as well grab more AC and Str from DD. Plus mirror won't hurt either.

Thanks for your quick answer. So the WiS point is for Will saves, that makes sense :)
Regarding bard spellcasting, this build is supposed to go heavy armor and shield ( I think aldori defender dip is for heavy armor prof besides extra feat), but wouln't it have ASF? Maybe a mithral armor helps... but still ASF..

Would you mix Deliverer (or another Slayer archetype) with any other combo besides Archae2/DD4?, maybe some Vivi for mutagen and sneak, I think they dont get asf. Maybe some other but cant think in anything else....
Thanks!!!!

Fighter is there for the tempo feats and earlygame mythral plate. And also for the dueling sword proficiency. Bloodhound at level 9-ish is hard to compete with. I for sure would go oak once I'd get my hands on it. As to the vivi... it only makes sense to go other way around with vivi16/TM1/slayer3, but that's a different build. Generally, slayer that you get more than 3 levels in wants to be irori deliverer 12, doesn't want to get monk levels, since that's only 1 feat for him and doesn't really care about anything, but more survivability, which you only can get from archae2/DD4 efficiently. With deliverer12/F1/archae2/DD4 locked you only have 1 level free and I can't really find anything that'd be better than another fighter level and an extra feat. I guess if you really hate irori for whatever reason you could get monk for that 1 level, but it'd push everything back 1 since it'd have to be front-loaded, while fighter can be pushed to 20.

Definitely a different kettle of fish (?) on Hard. Went through the tutorial and got one-shot a bunch of times, and a handful of total party wipes. +4 all over the place is a huge deal -- much bigger than I thought. However, it should be relatively more problematic in the beginning, when those +4 means you get hit and die instead of not, while later in the game those extra +4 will have a smaller relative importance. Unfair must have been extremely... unfair though. At least we survived a hit now and then on Hard. But on Unfair with double damage, basically any hit of any kind will kill you. Unless they roll a 2 damage from a bow or something. Had to try the library assassins many times before we survived. Thankfully the final battle was fine as Amiri is awesome.

Valerie buggered off this time, so I'm intrigued to see how that turns out. She has always been my tank, throughout the entire last playthrough. Harrim isn't up to much, but at least it's a cleric, even if a poor one.

Going back to this one again. Is Cleave really worth it? Have seen some discussions where it was labelled rather unfavourably. And what about Dreadful Carnage and Int. Prowess, are they so good that we need it? And why Extend? Is it that crucial early on, before rods are easily accessible? Combat casting is pointless?Tempting to go for spell focus conjuration or evocation, but if it's as useless as you say due to DC lagging behind, then I guess there is little point. It looks like the most useful to me, but yeah.. :-/

Reason I ask is that I kinda fell in love with chain AoO and would like to pick those feats up on this character too. Bonus that it triggers automatically too, and I'm not sure how micro-intensive Cleave will be.

One more thing, about skills. Is Magic device worth the investment? An alternative might be Athletics, just for non-armor weighed down values, and eventually high strength, for skill checks. Then Valerie or whoever else might normally cover it can do something else [edit: actually, Athletics is probably a bad idea, since I can't start picking up those points until lvl 9-10, as I need Perception to catch up first, and somebody else will need to cover Athletics anyway]. Main skills I'd like to get points into is Persuasion and Perception (I like to have several Perception people, and missed some items last time around, as some Storyteller artifacts missed pieces). Octavia should be able to cover a good deal of knowledge + lore, as I plan to try her out this time -- definitely need a dedicated spell thrower.

Why do you not want to use the power attack, is the BAB too poor to reliably hit stuff with it?

This is what I've noted down for now:

#1: Fighter - Dodge, Improved unarmed strike, Weapon focus (Greataxe)
#2: Sorcerer (Green draconic bloodline) - Combat casting / Spell focus ??
#3: Sorcerer - Crane style (BAB 2 now)
#4: Sorcerer
#5: Sorcerer - Dazzling display
#6: DD
#7: DD - Outflank, Power attack
#8: DD
#9: DD - Crane wing
#10: EK - Shatter defenses
#11: EK - Crane riposte
#12: EK
#13: EK - Improved critical (Greataxe)
#14: EK - Combat reflexes
#15: EK - Seize the moment
#16: EK
#17: EK - Greater weapon focus (Greataxe)
#18: EK - Blind fight (maybe too late, and could be ignored for Echolocation?)
#19: EK - Weapon specialisation (Greataxe) (pointless at this stage? +2 damage ain't much I guess)
#20: Sorcerer - (Unlikely to get to level 20, though)

Not quite sure about those latest feats, but I do quite fancy the AoO ones. Would this work out well?

If you go without a monk you need to take ASF talents. No way around it. Foci are useless to you. only thing useful at sorc 1 you can take is extend. Cleave is there for cleaving finish, that's that. Can be skipped if you need something. Intimidating is for passing checks. It's not like there is anything more useful and if you want unfair version of that, aimed for proper use of tools available go to unfair guide. Can also be done on a human with 18/16/13/7/7/16 spread instead of aasimar that trades skills for better stat curve as you bump con at 20.

Well, about archae2/DD4 I meant something instead of if, not besides of it... ie barbarian also brings uncany dodge and rage with a possible extra bite attack at full BAB; Maybe paladin if you switch WIS and CHA that improves all saves and smite evil for big guys....
It is just that an arcane spellcaster combo being in full plate is just a pity to me...
Definitely vivi doest fit with a shield user, shield spells overlaps with it.
Actually I cant really think in anything else so far...

and which one of the above gives mirror? They don't. There are a lot of sub-optimal things you might slap there and it'd be anywhere from marginally worse to wasted levels. From actual usability you won't get anything better.

Not exactly. It's a balance between optimized builds, personal skill and difficulty. One puts more strain on the other. I know I can force armored sorc to work, for example.

Edit. As to the RNG... there is a bit of it on unfair, since it's really hard to stack enough everything by level 2-3. Everywhere else there actually isn't. Hire a sylvan merc, apply CC liberally and it'll go fine regardless of MC chosen. For the mansion you get 2 characters with daze right away, so it's not too bad either.

I used better strategy - played a solo character and came there when i was lvl 6 and showed them all, who is the boss.
There is a huge problem is this game - all your companion's builds are utter shit! I'd kicked all those useless exp leechers as fast as possible.

Wanted to do things differently than in my first game, so this time I basically beelined for it, since I knew it was possible to get a companion there. Which means we are 4 people, and one of them being Linzi, meaning we are 3 really as she can't hit the broad side of a barn from 3 paces. And at level 2 a bard isn't up to much (but she can toss a grease at least, which sometimes helps). Lacking Valerie doesn't help, as maybe she'd be able to dodge some arrows hiding behind that door of hers.

Hadn't expected the difference to be so freakin' stark, as it's essentially only +4 that is changed. Well, plus crits and 1.0 damage, but the latter isn't that big a deal. But +4 AC and +4 to-hit is fucking huge at these levels, because they hit on just about anything, and we need something like 16 to hit them. Means we need lucky rolls to hit AND lucky rolls to not insta-die. Not fun :-(

New day and I'll try some more on hard first, but doing this mass reload exercise for every encounter won't be all that fun. The Kressle combat was the same. Needed 8 tries or something. Too often we are practically dead in the first round because archers hit us while flat-footed.

But like I said above, at least I understand better now why most (?) builds in here are LG + Monk.

I tried the Saint tank build and it's good, but I'm afraid it doesn't fit my playstyle. Unbuffed, still has 5AC less than unbuffed Valerie. I'm sure the mirror image etc makes up for it but I'm really not a fan of regular buffing :D

So, when it comes to "fire and forget" tanking, is plate armor + shield always going to beat dex build + monk + bracers of AC?

If so, is there any such tank build that is better than your Valerie (Fighter(TSS) 11/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 3/Monk(Traditional) 1/Rogue(Thug) 4/Stalwart Defender 1) ? Even the Aldori Defender 9/Vivi7/Thug4 maybe?

no, you just don't understand the difference between regular AC and touch AC. You'll find out though, later on in the game. Take a look at the touch AC of a heavy armor tank versus a dex tank. And then read what Touch AC is.