Can take PA. It's fine to have some extra damage on tap once you overcap the AB.

Trying this now, and with MC as tank I can make Valerie a bard.

Which of your Valerie bard builds works better with the Sword Saint MC?

Fighter(TSS) 5 / Bard 11 / Dragon Disciple 4
or
Fighter(TSS) 1 / Bard 8 / Dragon Disciple 4 / Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 3 / Slayer 3 / Monk(Scaled Fist) 1

(as usual, the less I have to buff etc the better ;) )

Either works. Bard 11 would generally be better for saint cause he does prefer a dirge bard. Although if you don't want to micro your bard every other round as you should it doesn't really matter.

Have created some characters to level 20 by editing the save file party.json, but am not terribly pleased with them. Looked through some builds in here again, and this one caught my eye. Kinda limited since I want to be CHA based, so perhaps I ought to just go for a melee sorcerer instead. Wanting to be CN alignment, Monk dip isn't possible. Would Fighter be best, to get e.g. Dodge+Martial?

One question I wonder about: Why Copper bloodline? Wouldn't for example Green be good, with a cone breath attack, since we're meant to be on the frontlines?

How would this actually play? Would you be mostly buffing up and then hacking off heads, or is the idea to use damage spells quite frequently as well while in the front?

Edit: Since I used Chain lightning as a staple level 6 spell, would it be better to go with an electricity bloodline?

Fighter is ok. You'd also need to cough up feats to combat ASF, so will have to be human.

Breath attacks don't matter. You likely won't use it once through the whole game. Color ultimately doesn't matter either. I just like acid cause small acid resistance a bit better than elemental one as that is more often found with small ticks.


Buff up and chop things with vanquisher. That's that. Case an odd no-save spell here and there once you have EK10.

You don't want offensive magic since it doesn't ramp up the DC's.

Thanks. I love offensive spells tho :( Thought (or hoped) that with all these various spell classes that DC kept up too. But we fall too far behind to use stuff like rays, CC or chain lightning? Would have been fun when I'm first up there, to blast them with acidic spray or something else that I've basically never been able to use due to friendly fire concerns.

Anyway, I like the idea of this so think I'll try it out. Then I have until level 2 before I need to scratch my head about what to do with the various companions :P

awesome, ill mull it over but i didnt even think of bloodlines! thanks brother

I mean maybe on casual difficulties you can. But reality is why would you even if you could? Vanquisher sorc will deal 100+damage on a regular hit and 200+on a crit. Sure there are free quicken spells from EK, but you can just dump those on touch spells without wasting feats on rays.

Looking over that build again, does crane wing and crane riposte do anything when we're meant to use a 2-hander in the greataxe? From the description in-game it mentioned the need for a hand free. Do they work even with 2-handers?

Vanquisher is probably a very late-game weapon, though, seeing as it's +5. But I get your point. Sounds better to just buff and hack off heads. More attacks too than a single spell. Maximised (from gear/rod) Chain lightnings can be mean as hell, though.

If you believe everything the game tells you - you're gonna have a bad time. The game lies. About most everything.

Being in complete agreement with Comrade InEffect, I would like to point out that the combat log mostly tells the truth. So usually it is a better source of information.

Cheers, then I'll definitely trust you :) They really should have fixed that, though. I'm sure smart programmers are able to get tooltips to show what the game files actually do (not plain text). Too late now, probably, but hope they sort stuff like this for the next one. It can be very confusing.

What are the differences between Melee Sorc and Str Scion in terms of 2h melee combatant capable of casting spells? Is one stronger or more comfortable to play than the other?

Sorc is more castery, has better AC ramp and a lot more utility. Abyssal Scion is more fightery and has more damage top end. That's pretty much it.