As I said, this was without full equipment and only by character sheet (so no Dodge or Wings, but both builds have mostly the same feats, so that's not really an unfair comparison). I wanted to have something comparable, and the more different equipment I slap on them, the more the results aren't comparable. And the save I use probably doesn't have the most fitting equipment for each build anyway, because I sold a lot.

The Sensei has a slew of other problems as well. For example I have to choose early if I want to go for Inspire Courage 2 or Mirror Image, whereas the Bard can go for both. I'd probably end up with Mirror Image on level 9, Inspire Courage 2 on level 12, and Mass Advice - the reason I'd be picking Sensei up in the first place - on level friggin' 16. Woohoo.

The whole experiment was simply to see why Sensei is so much worse, and whether I could do something about that. The result is that IMO unarmed users have to pay or simply don't get a lot of what weapon users have for free, like:
- Enchantment bonus (need an amulet for that),
- 1,5 strength multiplier (need Dragon Ferocity for that),
- damage bonus (out of luck here, unless you count Alkali Gloves),
- better crit range (out of luck here - you can take feats for it, but the same feats work on weapons better).

And you're right, I flat out forgot about Sense Vitals. I wanted to concentrate on AC/AB/damage because I couldn't see why Sensei ended up so much worse. So I skimmed over things like spells, Advice, spellstrike, saves etc.

Sorry if the whole thing ended up being more confusing than interesting.

I really enjoyed the build for the Varnhold general, is there a build like it for the full game? I wasn't able to find one.

Trip Vivisectionist is kinda that, except it doesn't use armor.

Hi InEffect and all

I am new to the game following sale and do not have the DLC (or at least not yet, want to try it out first)

I would like to play a tanky melee character, who uses persuasion and dips into an additional bag of tricks as much as feasible. Not a spellcaster, but some trickery and alchemy would fit nicely. Like a veteran guardsman who started out maintaining order with a blade in his hand but ended up learning a lot of other things along the way out of necessity. I would prefer STR based melee to DEX for the grizzled armoured look, although I am open minded about this.

In your suggested builds I see the Aldori Investigator, which I rather like as a character concept. Would this build still work without DLC, i.e. if I replace tiefling with human, or are there other things the DLC adds without which the build would not be feasible?

Thanks

Depends on the difficulty you're playing on, as always. And I'd definitely not recommend starting your first playthrough on Unfair, so yes, it will be feasible :)

Can be done. Tiefling is awesome for a free attack you get out of it, but it's not going to be unplayable. The build is already on the concept side of things, so it's not like it's unfair material to begin with. Should be fine for a challenging run.

Hi InEffect.

After all DLCs and Patches, do you have a Top 3 in? In relation to Damage?
Splitted in Melee, Ranged and Magic? :-)

Top melee damage: STR saint, Trip vivi, Melee sorc, STR abyssal scion19/SF1.
Top magic&ranged&CC: AT sorc.
Top phys ranged: Slayer/EA2 cause study is bugged to hell.
Top phys-ish ranged that aint stupidly bugged: Scoundrel8/EA2/EK10 for oneshotting stuff with the help of hellfire rays on round1 and general decent DPS, especially when going nova with free additional rays come EK10.

Oh, interesting. None of the listed i have played.
Next playthrough. :-)
What about Kineticist?

It's cheesy, boring and grossly OP. Trip kineticist, that is. I don't and probably never will be using em.

Hey all, I went and compiled the whole guide into a single document. Easier to navigate imo than the thread.
InEffect, let me know if you want me to remove it and I will. Appreciate all the work man! Everyone else, let me know if there are problems or things I missed. Enjoy.

cant post links so delete the (DELETE) and replace the (DOT) with a .

https(DELETE)://drive(DOT)google(DOT)com/file/d/1iuGGvvYFu6qmptq5QHiYUwa1bmgrLWnz/view?usp=sharing

First of all I would like to thank you all and especially InEffect. This subject is indeed both fascinating and useful !

And I would like to ask you for your help to make the team I intend to lead in my next game. Indeed, I stopped the game for several months (too many bugs) but I will get back to it with the intention of finishing it this time, in hard mode for act 1 and maybe unfair for the rest.

So I would like to play with an optimized team of 6 with :

- Monkish/dex AC/??? Tank / Front-line Damage Dealer
- ? / Front-line Damage Dealer / Off-tank
- ?
- Kineticist / Magic Ranged Damage Dealer
- ?
- Slayer / Physical Ranged Damage Dealer

I don't know what kind of second front line DD would be good. I dont like very much the idea of 2 naked characters (in monk robe). and i dont know yet what to choose to fill in the blanks. Support ? Healer ? Control ? Pets flood (i dont like pets) ?

HELP ME ! :D

What do you think would bring good synergies and also ensure good efficiency ?

Thank you for your help!

Melee sorc or saint. Easy pick for a top performing melee.

There is always a spot for Valerie in any party. She has like 34PB if you push her to valor route.

I'd honestly recommended taking a sorc instead. It's more fun and doesn't break the game past midgame.

Slayer is bugged to hell. It won't be fun.

What you need to cover is bard and cleric for sure. And jubilost to save feats on echolocation and 1h on every rest. 12% rest efficiency is nice. For cleric It's either erastil community+animal or Abadar nobility+travel.

I'd recommend checking out unfair guide. It has pretty much what you ask, including more up to date Valerie bard builds and some such.

I was indeed heading for a Saint. Always a good pic and i saw your build which looks fantastic !

I hate the distribution of her statistics but the character is really cool. I may favor a mercenary or if I have the courage, use the respec mod to modify the companions, improve their efficiency while keeping their story...
In this case, what type of build do you think could complete the Saint main tank?

Ok, I did not know the Kineticist was broken. Never tried it. But you're right, I do not want to make half of the game trivial. The good old AT Sorc then ! :)

Ok. same as Kine, wanted to try it, but let's take a Ranger instead.

Of course, you're right. Cleric seems essential and i was going to a usual erastil community+animal, but did not think of Jubilost in this role.Good idea ! Bard, yes, maybe a figthing one...

[s]]May i ask you : where ? :)[/s] Found !

So, for the moment, we have :

- Saint Dex
- DPS / Off-tank - ?
- Cleric erastil community + animal domain
- AT Sorc
- Ranger
- And Bard... a Thundercaller ?

Thank you inEffect for these detailed and very useful answers! You helped make my game better ! ;)