1st of all linzy is the worst bard out of the two possible ones if we are talking story companions. Nobody in their right mind would take linzy instead of val to unfair to begin with..The build is there for the sole reason of challenging or some such. I couldn't just say "play bard val instead"
2nd. bard song stops progressing past level 5. Wasting loads of levels in the hopes of adding a mere +2 is inane. You want a power spike? Toss a Community domain ecclesi merc. That will eclipse anything the bard would hope to provide, except for heroism spells. Still, free +2 is ok enough and it's a mirror image at a medium BAB, which is not bad either. Being a buffer is just not enough. Everyone, except for full casters must fill more than one role.

Bard song does not stop progressing past level five. Plus you add new songs and your DC keeps going up. Skill song is the biggest payoff anyway, EXP-wise. I'm getting Community domain from Ekun

This bard build is not primarily a buffer other than the essential Good Hope (I'd recommend getting the initial cast from the dorf relic helm to save a cast for offense). Whether you go enchantment or evocation she's focusing on offense. And Linzi is more than fine at it.

BTW, if you're worried about AoOs, if you're fighting defensively (cautious fighter then also comes into the picture) you don't trigger them but you do still have to pass a concentration check, so combat casting helps a lot, as does staying straight Bard to keep your caster level going up.

it does. you have to invest loads of levels to get a mere +2 over what you were already having. That's bad. And ekun for community is just so awful I can;t even. Proper ecclesi would give +13AB/AC by the end of the game. Ekun would provide like half that and have no damage in the process..

Both enchantment and evo is bad for bard(with the latter being garbage overall). Anything attacking will is useless and even more so for a 2/3 casters Using bards for anything but light support and a melee platform is just a waste of time on unfair.

AoO's don't matter if the enemy has 1.25% to hit. Combat casting is bad for exactly that reason. If you don't get hit - you don't need it. Not being hit is the only sustainable way of going through unfair.

You invest the loads of levels so you can fascinate at dc 30, dipshit. And get +5 to skills. And +3/+3 on all attacks from everything (+4/+4 at lvl 16). And shaken on everything at the start of every battle. And fear is you want it. And +4 straight up on dodge/saves late when you need it.

You don't even know how to linger, so maybe leave it to someone who has actually played the class.

Ekun provides tons of damage. He's already got most of the archery skills he needs. 8 levels of huntmaster costs two AB. That's it. Community on Ekun is worth it for the outflank on Okbo alone. He can also cure fatigue from his first level of huntmaster.

Attacking will is great all through the midgame and its easier for her to land her spells since she keeps those mobs shaken all the time. I've also got a high DC Archon's Aura up at all times for another -2.

Her evo spells own casters who have low fortitude, with the damage also triggering a concentration check. Your achers and chargers can clean up from there as necessary. Her covering will and fortitude frees up you wiz/jubilost to target reflex.

If you're threatened (i.e. in melee) you'll trigger a concentration check whether you're hit or not. Try it with Harrim's touch of chaos some time*. As pure bard her images last long enough to keep them up when needed, so she can get to less than 1.25% if needed, but she shouldn't draw aggro.

* - that's how pnp works. Not sure about this now as I had an MC Sword Saint and I don't remember that many concentration checks. Would great if you didn't need combat casting as she's feat starved as is.

+2 over what you already have at 5. Skillchecks don't matter.Any proper party has enough for everything. Will DC30=5% for most mobs. It's as bad as it sounds. Will affecting spells and abilities are bad and you should feel bad.

You lose AB and damage from it and you will end up with a bad ranger and a bad huntsmaster. 8 levels in huntsmaster alone will kill your DPS faster than anything. You have to have 15 levels in ranger for 4d6 sense vitals, you have to have 2EA for an extra arrow. That leaves 3 levels for either huntsmaster to buff your pet(bad idea for unfair. It will be hit and killed anyways) or V3 for mutagen and 3d6 sneak.

Midgame mostly consists of undead. GL attacking will of those. Glitterdust and grease are the real deal there.

Stinking clouds. No need for gimmicky spells that stun for a round(if at all). Bards should prebuff and tank. That's it.They are totally unable to reach DC's that are needed for unfair.

Doesn't matter if you get attacked If enemy has 1.25% to hit you. Anything that doesn't have untouchable AC, invis and mirror image should not be in melee to begin with.

In conclusion, play more of the game instead of spewing nonsense and trying to insult your way to winning an argument. That will get you nowhere.

You're the one who led with insults. Just because you don't know how to debuff enemy saves, that doesn't mean no one else does. Obv don't target strong saves, but there is all kinds of stuff throughout the game she can reach if you're properly debuffing saves. Not everything will stick - that's unfair - but enough will if you properly control the battlefield.

No need to debuff for Trolls and Owlbears and Gobs and other random big dummies. Of course will isn't for undead, but other classes attack reflex better than bard. I might consider not even taking her for Vordokai's Tomb. But that's only one part of a huge game.

As for Ekun, Sense Vitals is per round and he's never getting enough casts to keep it up all the time. If you don't understand how important getting Outflank on Okbo is maybe you should play the game more. Seriously, your original build recommended cutting Lingering, which is the most important bard feat, one of the most important in the game (imagine rage with lingering). Makes me think you're resting every other fight.

Okbo might get hit and killed if you don't know how to buff him properly (Jubilost is best for Echolocation and shield, but he gets to 50 AC without it) and debuff your enemies. Of course when you play six soloers no one gets around to debuffing so I could see how he might struggle for you.

And then ghosts eat him alive because his touch AC sucks. Most of your thinking is built around endgame, but 90% of the game is getting there. That's why you don't know how to play Linzi and Okbo, because they're non-entiies at the endgame.

buffing pets on unfair is a waste of time. They are not reaching 70 AC and, most importantly, they don't have mirror image, so they would die even if they did. So, don't waste time and effort into buffing a pet and use them as a free fodder they are.

Saying your proposed build is bad is not an insult. It's the truth. Your action economy is bad, your damage output is bad and your idea about tanking is bad.

Let me put some things straight:
1. Action economy. You are almost always at a disadvantage, so wasting time on anything that doesn't take out things out of the play is bad. So, dazzling is ok on a few people, but you use it for shatter, debuff is just a bonus on top. With that in mind, Duration spells that force loads of checks are the way. Same goes for damage delers. Here come your 500+ DPR saints and vivisectionists(who also can tank for ages with AC/Invis/mirror). All soft-CC is useless for unfair, all single-save spells are mostly too. Lingering is not great for most of the game for that reason as well as it costs you actions in combat that could be used on something better. And when you actually get the chance to use lingering with greater effect... you don't really need it. By endgame you will have like 30 rounds of song(which you don't even need in half the fights). You will sooner run out of spells than out of songs.
2. Casting. Only decent way of attacking will is Arcane illusionist gnome. That thing at least reaches decent DC's and actually takes out things with it. That, and illusion does have useful spells, much unlike enchantment. Also, any prep you do to CC delays said CC. That's bad. Reality of casting on unfair is just ramping DC's high enough to blow through any saves the enemy might have. Conjuration has both reflex and fort, so it's an obvious choice. Also stinking cloud that is party-friendly and solves most trash encounters.
3. Tanking. To tank unfair you have to drop enemy chances to hit. By a lot. Even 5% is not good enough. 2.5% with displacement effect slapped on is not good enough either. Slap mirror on top and now we're talking. That drops the chances to 1.25%, which is acceptable. Anything with mirror is by default 2 times tankier than whatever without it. And this is why pets suck at it.
4. Damage. There is no point in half-assing it. Just have a few guys who can push 500+ damage a round and it will be fine.
5. Your time. IDK about you, but I like not wasting time. So, fights must be quick and light on resources. 90% of fights in the game look like: "buffed party casts haste and stinking cloud and wipes the floor with everything". No looting till you finish the floor/area or the shorter spells run out either. That ups your rest efficiency. On the topic of time - buffing pets is a waste of it. They are twice as likely to be one-shotted. It's bad investment. And even if you buff them the damage past act 1 in negligible. Sit em back instead and use them to plug holes for a few rounds and to prevent flanks. And when the enemy is hard-CC'd you can move them in. They might even hit something once in a while(for a pathetic damage, because pets are like that).
Also regarding time, the more you have to click - the slower you go. Another reason why Duration CC and heavy phys damage is the way.
6. Unfair in general is about hedging your bets. You don't rely on something that can fail - you use things that are guaranteed to work. So why use a pet that has 2.5%+ to be hit, when you can use literally any competent melee that has 1.25%? Why roll the dice with one-and-done spells, when you can use duration ones? Stack odds and you will rarely load(if at all).

Unfair builds are stupid

Unfair builds is what happens when you have 1500h under your belt. It's the only way to keep the challenge up for decently optimized characters. Doesn't even have to be 100% optimal. Just good builds and meta knowledge allow to pretty much auto-attack everything to death below unfair. Would I prefer some other balancing statistic than flat bufffs to enemy stats and 2x damage? Yeah, I would. But that's aint happening and unfair at least lets you fail, so you have to use spells/positioning to win.

to be fair, he didn't insult me. He stated his opinion on unfair-viable builds. That's perfectly fine and not all of the builds here are fit for unfair, anyways, because otherwise the thread would be kinda limited.
Anyhow, even if someone were to insult me, I would appreciate if that would be an incident isolated to that person. Insulting them back won't change their mind.

Hi, firstly, thank you for these guides. They were incredibly helpful for me, someone who enjoys the game but understands the underlying mechanics very little.

My question is, have I done something with Linzi's build? I am following your main linzi companion build, where she gets levels of Eldritch Knight starting at level 9. I am at that level now, but Eldritch Knight is greyed out, and says I need a level in Barbarian, fighter, Magus, etc etc (see attached). She has her 7 levels in Bard and 1 in Rogue (thug), and all the feats are the same. Have I done something wrong?

edlt: ok it seems the attach function isn't working, image is here: imgur.com/a/xWSjs0u

You sure you don't have mods that introduced that restriction? like maybe EA?

oooohhh myyy gooodddd

Thank you. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. I didn't even think that this was a possibility.

I know you don't play much anymore, or do this, but do you have any thoughts on the viability/build of jaethal as a tank?