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First off, thanks for the guides. They are the best I've seen by far! I was brand new to PF: KM, but now I have a very good idea on many of the game mechanics.

I was wondering if you could put together a mix/max group for the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC. I already used several of your builds to push pretty far into the DLC, but I was wonder what you thought would be the BEST setup.

My setup last run used your builds (modified slightly because of merc starting stats and items found). These are the builds I used:

Dex Scion - main, tank
Aldori Duelist (modified last 2 levels, no +8 str item found :() - tank
Linzy - bard
Sylvan Sorcerer - buffer, cc, and unlikely top dpser (wasn't expecting this, maybe it counted pet too ??)
Tristian - heals
Unfair Kineticist - dd

While I did very well (by my standards at least) in the run. I would like to know your thoughts. I made it to level 51 (normal, ironman) before stopping to restart and find another boss. Levels 30-40 were the toughest for me because of Baneful Polymorph landing on the tanks (before I found immune to curse items). I could have pushed further I think with this setup, but buffing every rest was getting tiresome and I wanted to kill the other bosses. Plus, I get to play now with a +3 to hit on all my characters :)

Thanks!

Hi InEffect, I really liked your idea for nok nok build, I was thinking maybe instead of taking Barbarian, I could take Slayer levels instead ? Will that work? Slayer also fixes the AB problem, but since Nok Nok is Chaotic Evil, is deliverer still the best option ?

90% of enemies are chaotic, so no. One could do spawn slayer, I guess.

Hey man, slight issue with the stat distribution for Merc 2. I went with your spread but with 12 dex I don't meet the requisite for dodge at level 1, which is 13 apparently. I tried shifting points away from INT but my skill point pool takes a hit. Is there a fix you'd recommend?

EDIT: Nvm, I figured out the issue. I needed to Dodge as a monk feat before I was allowed to pick up Crane Style as my first level feat. That was silly

The healing is the easy part. She'll be an insane healer by midgame. It's making her useful for anything else that's hard. I've found giving her a fauchard then focusing on casting her unique spells to be best. Her lvl 11 aura does save death ward slots/micro.

Hey, InEffect, using your guides to great effect so far, just wondering though, about the " Use Inspire Greatness instead of Inspire Courage when/if you get it." when you don't seem to take enough bard levels to ever get IG. so not sure what is meant by this. also "Take Manyshot instead of Arcane Strike and arcane strike instead of lingering, if you decide to do so." this is also confusing because I don't see lingering being taken at any point... help would be appreciated!

This is an awful build.

The strength of Bard is how all the abilities snowball with each additional level of Bard. The strength of Eldritch Knight is being able to advance spell levels like a spellcster while advancing your BAB like a fighter. This is the worst of both worlds. And Lingering is THE most important bard feat. It triples your rounds of performance while allowing you to sing offensive and defensive songs at the same time.

Do you have a better one then?

Yes.

Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 16 > 20

Final Build: Bard 17
Main skills: Knowledge: Arcana, Knowlege: World, Stealth, Mobility, Persuasion (alternatively, if you focus more on combat and less on offensive spells you can get perception pretty high too, but there's a ring for casters that makes that less good)

She gets 1/2 a rank/lvl on all knowledge and lore skills for free, +1 to all skills at lvl 10, train one rank in the lores because why not, they're class skills. Stealth opens up strategic possibilities like opening combat with Fascinate song.

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 2: Bard - Combat Trick > Weapon Finesse
Lvl 3: Bard - Lingering Performance
Lvl 4: Bard
Lvl 5: Bard - Combat Casting (you need this early since concentration relies on caster lvl and yours' isn't high yet. This will let you cast strong bard cone and close range skills)
Lvl 6: Bard - Fast Stealth (or combat trick two-weapon fighting if you're patient)
Lvl 7: Bard - Outflank
Lvl 8: Bard
Lvl 9: Bard - Spell Focus: Enchantment
Lvl 10: Bard - Combat trick >Blindfight
Lvl 11: Bard - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Lvl 12: Bard
Lvl 13: Bard - Spell Penetration
Lvl 14: Bard - Combat Trick: Two-weapon fighting
Lvl 15: Bard - Greater Spell Penetration
Lvl 16: Bard
Lvl 17: Bard - Improved two-weapon fighting

You want to be melee because it requires less feats and agile weapons do dex to damage while bows do not. You'll always have lousy strength and there are a lot of good agile weapons, especially rapiers which you want to trigger outflank crits. It also keeps you close enough for your offensive songs to hit all the mobs and for your short range spells to be cast withouit moving since most of the midgame you'll be using move actions to switch your songs. You can cast spells on the same trun.

Spells by level in order of importance:
Lvl 1: Grease, Expeditious Retreat, Hideous Laughter, Ear Piercing Shout (great for intteruptring low fort casters), Haze of Dreams (single target slow (staggered = no full attacks), Touch of Gracelessness
Lvl 2: Cacophonous Call, Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Sense Vitals (don't need Heroism as Good Hope is better and you need to keep it up at all times. It's the main reason to play a bard), Sonic Burst (mass counterspell), Blur
Lvl 3: Good Hope, Overwhelming Grief, Thunderous Drums, Crushing Despair, Confusion, Slow (no room for Haste since you have so many good unique Bard options and haste is only per round)
Lvl 4: Echolocation, Serenity, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Hold Monster, Shout
Lvl 5: Cacophonous Call(Mass), Song of Discord, Resonating Word (caster hell), Heroism(Greater), Dispel Magic(Greater), Cloak of Dreams (turn-based to set up coup d'teat)
Lvl 6: Brilliant Inspiration, Euphoric Tranquility, Overwhelming Presence, Cure Moderate Wounds(Mass)

* Glitterdust is solid as a mass blind, but mobs get a save every round. They don't for Cacophanus Call, which also hits more things than hold person. There are other ways to deal with concealment/invis but Dust is a solid failsafe.

Important gear: +Cha/DC relic ring, you can use hat stolen from linnorm to manage encumbrance or belt of physical form or just boogeyman's robe (boosts knowledge checks, fears things you hit with decent DC) and bracers/mage armor, Sentinel Ring to give yourself Spell Resistance.

She will likely be in your party forever. Bards are pretty much THE party buffers in this game. No other class can hold a candle to them in that department. With this build-up she will also be able to trigger outflank AoOs/fears/agile damage when she is not casting and will be moderately competent at that task. Thundercaller bards are infinitely worse than than she is, because she's the key to passing the hardest skill checks for massive exp. No companions are gimped.

Bards are not healers. If your bard has to run in to heal somebody you did something wrong. Heal spells are not taken because she has so many better other things to do.

Enchantment is chosen as bards have amazing selection of those spells, though Evocation is close*. And if enemy has insane will saves you have a lot of fort-tasrgeting spells, and the almighty Grease for reflex.

Use extend metamagic rods. They will give you a lot of bonus time. Yoiur spells will have long durations even without it since you're straight Bard. Your DCs on your songs will be way better, and your songs are insane.

Use Inspire Heroics if you're running Val as a Bard too since she can keep up Courage two-levels behind. There is a spoilerish reason to do this, plus Val gets a nice weapon midgame that makes her a great Bard.

General strategy: buff your party - crush everything, repeat. Drop few control spells here and there. Go full control in really hard ones. Decide if you want to CC something before fight gets messy - it will make more impact on your action economy.

* - an alternative approach is to focus on evocation to use her Bard sonic spells for taking out casters before they can get any spells off, since they all target fortitude which is low on casters and have some sort of stun attached. There's a dagger that gives +4 initiative and you'll get some more from your high dex. If you take improved initiative you'll consistently act before they can get one off.

I like this a lot, but between ekuns dog and my two tanks melee is a bit cramped. There's no way to make her ranged?

Also, why take concentration? You're not going to be getting hit, ideally

With outflank, the more the merrier. You can get an outstanding weapon for her early that has a fort proc, so with boogeyman's robes any AoOs proc twice on different saves. Just have Okbo charge around to get where he's going. Better yet, ues him as your main tank. Other melee should be on reach weapons or enlarged. I'd consider running Jubilost over the third tank. He's the actual main party buffer. Only one who can cast shield on pets.

As for combat casting, she won't draw aggro, but she will get hit if she triggers an AoO. She can't get Crane or anything. Ideally it hits a mirror image. If it hits her its not the end of the world as long as the casting goes through. With Combat Casting Touch of Gracelessness also becomes a thing. Nice vs bosses since it does half dex damage even it they save, and that number can get pretty high.

Even buffed, on hard and unfair the dog just can't tank. And linzi will get two shot if she's in melee. Hence my desire for a ranged build.

I'm talking about hard and unfair. If you can't figure out how to tank with Okbo on hard and unfair, maybe you should take the difficulty down a notch.

On the game I have up my level 10 Okbo has 45 AC just standing around, 38 flatfooted. That's with no shield or shield of faith which would be another 8. You are using Shaken song and Archon's Aura too, right?

As for Linzi getting two shot, it's a good thing that AoO's only come one at a time then. She's not drawing normal aggro if you play competently*. The key thing is making sure that the spell goes off because this Linzi's spells actually stick.

A pea shooter ranged Linzi whose spells and songs (song DC goes by bard level, not EK level) don't and don't even reach the mobs anyway is better off on the bench.

* - stray cleaves are an issue. Vordokai is one mission where she may be better off on the bench since undead is immune to many of her strengths. You can get Good Hope from the relic helm. If you take her there is a lot of anti-giant equipment to help her stay alive.

One thing I forgot - I've been having her get echolocation and use it when needed instead of blindfight. Sadly, she's the only companion for whom it isn't a must have. Also lets her get two-weapon fighting on time.