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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect's Guide V2(1001 posts)(1001 posts)
(1001 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 05, 2019
Thanks again for coming back to me. :)

I will look into what you have said.
Posted April 15, 2019
Amazing guide especially for new players like me who never played Pnp before, though i really like this type of games and a big thanks for your hard work.
I really want to use couple of your builds like Hospitaler for main and Sylv sorc, but i will change to human race for the roleplay and because i don't like other races. Also i would like to try your dexScion, unfortunately i am not fond of the dragon bloodlines that's why i want to ask your opinion about elemental bloodlines, especially fire and water, they seem really cool and i don't really need them to be overpowered, just viable and playable.
Or maybe a kineticist that focus just on one of the elements, water or fire, of course if that is possible.
Anyway i am just trying to build an off-tank fighter with some water/fire spells that can take couple of hits and does decent amount of damage.
Posted April 15, 2019
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MihaiGt: Amazing guide especially for new players like me who never played Pnp before, though i really like this type of games and a big thanks for your hard work.
I really want to use couple of your builds like Hospitaler for main and Sylv sorc, but i will change to human race for the roleplay and because i don't like other races. Also i would like to try your dexScion, unfortunately i am not fond of the dragon bloodlines that's why i want to ask your opinion about elemental bloodlines, especially fire and water, they seem really cool and i don't really need them to be overpowered, just viable and playable.
Or maybe a kineticist that focus just on one of the elements, water or fire, of course if that is possible.
Anyway i am just trying to build an off-tank fighter with some water/fire spells that can take couple of hits and does decent amount of damage.
-Human is fine, unless you aim for unfair it won't be much of a difference.
-dragon has so much going for it: free ac, mage armor, free wings... if you would ask can scion be swapped for a human I'd say sure, but from dragon... I guess serpent bloodline aasimar(wings) could work. Elemental will work, but you should know that you'll be playing the build at about 70% efficiency(at best).
-non-tank 2 element kineticist aimed at unfair I'll post sometime today
-for a tanky 2 element build... it just doesn't really work. you need earth for bowling and deadly earth, water for the the shield and fire for elemental blasts and composite component. I guess you can do kinetic knight as 2 element going fire-water(phys)-fire with pushing and dazzling setups. KK15 / scaled fist 1 / Thug 4 spread. It's ok for the virtue of being kineticist, but awful compared to what kineticist can be.
Posted April 15, 2019
70% doesn't sound that bad, i was expecting for 40-50% at least and there is no way i am going for unfair for my first play, i'll end up without any hair on my head:)
Kineticist doesn't sound appealing anymore. I wanted to try making just 1 element .
Thanks for advice, i'll stick to Fire/water scion, anyway i can swap him anytime , he'll be a custom companion.
One more thing, what do you think about undead bloodline?
Could you make a deathknight out of it or a necromancer?
Posted April 15, 2019
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MihaiGt: 70% doesn't sound that bad, i was expecting for 40-50% at least and there is no way i am going for unfair for my first play, i'll end up without any hair on my head:)
Kineticist doesn't sound appealing anymore. I wanted to try making just 1 element .
Thanks for advice, i'll stick to Fire/water scion, anyway i can swap him anytime , he'll be a custom companion.
One more thing, what do you think about undead bloodline?
Could you make a deathknight out of it or a necromancer?
undead has... RP value? that's the best that can be said about it. Affecting undead is not really useful. Any competent sorc has rays for that. Also people see necro specialists as debuffers and that's not really the case. Necro is very focused damage school with a bit of utility that anyone can grab(no-save waves of exhaustion and animate dead) and mostly underwhelming control. But if you go for wizard necro specialist(enchantment as opposing) and make him into AT, sprinkle some rays and no-save AoE evocation you'll be more than fine. then there is +2necro dc dagger and +2 necro dc cloak, add ring of circumstances to that and you have a necromancer that has really high DC. will need like 16 con/19int/spare into dex or something along those lines. That's a better necromancer than undead bloodline will ever be. As far as undead bloodline scions go... they get pretty garbage spells and pretty much nothing of value from it. At least it's still scion, so it will be useable.

PS. don't go Ice on scion. everything and their dog is immune to it. Just FYI. the rest of the elements are more or less fine.
Post edited April 15, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 16, 2019
Unfair Kineticist.

Race: Human

Alignment: Any

Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 19 > 24
Con: 16
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

Main skills: Persuasion(Max)
Suggested secondary skills: Trickery if you want to abuse not sharing exp for skill checks. Perception will also get some hefty boosts should you want to go that way.

Final Build: Kineticist 19 / Rogue(Thug) 1

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Kineticist - Point-Blank Shot // Precise Shot // Fire / Extra Range
Lvl 2: Kineticist - Fire > Dazzling Display
Lvl 3: Rogue - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Kineticist - Fan of Flames
Lvl 5: Kineticist - Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast // Fire > Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 6: Kineticist - Burning Infusion*
Lvl 7: Kineticist - Skill Focus: Persuasion // Fire’s Fury
Lvl 8: Kineticist - Earth
Lvl 9: Kineticist - Shatter Defences // Earth > Trip
Lvl 10: Kineticist - Bowling Infusion
Lvl 11: Kineticist - Fury’s Fall // Earth > Greater Trip
Lvl 12: Kineticist - Wall
Lvl 13: Kineticist - Agile Maneuvers // Enduring Earth
Lvl 14: Kineticist - Deadly Earth
Lvl 15: Kineticist - Persuasive // Elemental Whispers - Centipede**
Lvl 16: Kineticist - Water > Water
Lvl 17: Kineticist - Blind Fight // Expanded Defence > Flesh of Stone
Lvl 18: Kineticist - Fragmentation
Lvl 19: Kineticist - Toughness // Fire > Iron Will
Lvl 20: Kineticist - Cloud // Metakinesis: Empowered
*Doesn't matter much which infusion we take here. Dazzling that works once a blue moon or d6 DoT that doesn't really matter.
**Hare would be a valid alternative, but initiative doesn’t really matter for this one. If we get focused we will die flat-footed or not.

Gear: +Stat belts and hats. The rest hardly matters. Some Persuasion and/or CMD bonuses would be welcome.

Very abusive build. Deals tons of damage and controls everything from level 3 pretty much. Don’t be shy to use dazzling manually for control. That dreadful might not pop soon enough, but it’s there and will keep everything reasonably terrified of your existence. Primarily an unfair build where you can’t afford to wait for good things and AC doesn’t matter as much - you either have tons of it or none.

Use Gather Power to reduce the burn. Especially low one is a godsend(it’s not liek we plan to move much anyways)

That’s about it. Very simple and abusive build fit for unfair. No fun allowed. Thought I need to represent this one as the other kineticist is designed more for comfortable late-game play on hard than anything.
Post edited June 17, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 16, 2019
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InEffect: Unfair Kineticist.

Very abusive build. Deals tons of damage and controls everything from level 3 pretty much. Don’t be shy to use dazzling manually for control. That dreadful might not pop soon enough, but it’s there and will keep everything reasonably terrified of your existence. Primarily an unfair build where you can’t afford to wait for good things and AC doesn’t matter as much - you either have tons of it or none.

Use Gather Power to reduce the burn. Especially low one is a godsend(it’s not liek we plan to move much anyways)

That’s about it. Very simple and abusive build fit for unfair. No fun allowed. Thought I need to represent this one as the other kineticist is designed more for comfortable late-game play on hard than anything.
So you set things on fire while people run in fear? Sounds more evil than anything Ive played so far.

Really appreciate you taking the time to post builds. Really helps newcomers like me to the game.
Posted April 16, 2019
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Coralfang: So you set things on fire while people run in fear? Sounds more evil than anything Ive played so far.

Really appreciate you taking the time to post builds. Really helps newcomers like me to the game.
Partly. Once you get deadly earth it's more about dropping enemies on their knees without any chances to do anything en mass aka bowling infusion magma deadly earth plus wall plus RTA's.
lets play a game "the floor is lava". Unironically.
Post edited April 16, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 19, 2019
Kinetic Valerie

Role: Tank/Disruptor

Stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 13
Con: 19 > 24
Int: 9
Wis: 10
Cha: 15

Final Build: Fighter(TSS) 5/Kineticist(Kinetic Knight) 11/Rogue(Thug) 4

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion (max)
Suggested secondary skills: Perception (max), Use Magic Device (spare)

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 2: Kineticist - Fire
Lvl 3: Kineticist - Armor Focus: Heavy // Elemental Whispers: Lizard
Lvl 4: Kineticist
Lvl 5: Kineticist - Shield Focus // Dazzling Display
Lvl 6: Kineticist
Lvl 7: Kineticist - Outflank // Dazzling Infusion
Lvl 8: Kineticist - Fire’s Fury
Lvl 9: Rogue - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 10: Kineticist - Fire > Dreadful Carnage // Water: Water
Lvl 11: Rogue - Shatter Defences // Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast
Lvl 12: Rouge
Lvl 13: Fighter - Improved Unarmed Strike // Crane Style
Lvl 14: Kineticist
Lvl 15: Kineticist - Persuasive // Kinetic Healer
Lvl 16: Kineticist - Unraveling Infusion*
Lvl 17: Rogue - Improved Critical: Kinetic Blast // Combat Trick > Blind Fight
Lvl 18: Fighter
Lvl 19: Fighter - Skill Focus: Persuasion // Improved Initiative*
Lvl 20: Fighter
*optional can take Crane wing here while it's still bugged.

Gear: Mithral Plate, +AC gear, +Stat gear, Opportunist’s Boots.
What we achieved here exactly? 16BAB kinetic knight, which is actually pretty decent. Quite a bit of AC. Decent AB, considering we attack touch AC. High Dazzling checks, Almost full damage that kineticist would have if we qualify for sneak-attack, Massive debuffs to anything we hit. We actually hit so well that you might consider switching to Disorienting Injury.

Burn yourself as you please. She has way too much HP anyway. Use +4Con Overflow.

Pretty ok by the virtue of being kineticist(so long as you don’t compare her to actual kineticists). I kept Her TSS progression mostly so her initial level wouldn’t be a complete waste. And late-game tower shields are good(also we can’t really ramp water shield any higher than +9AC in this build anyway)

2nd Element can be whatever you feel like. We don't depend too much on that. Picked water so she can kinda maybe heal someone sometime.

Has uncanny dodge, blind-fight and evasion.

Good enough as far as I'm concerned.
Post edited May 23, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 19, 2019
Hi there InEffect, I'm a big fan of your work.

I'm curious what you'd think of this build for a tank:

Angelkin Aasimar (+Str, +Cha, wings option)
Sorcerer 1 (to open up dragon disciple)
Monk 1 (Scaled fist, adds CHA to AC, plus crane style)
Paladin 2 (Divine Hunter because why not, CHA to saves)
Sword Saint 1 (Building with Longswords to take advantage of the Perfection longsword later on)
Dragon Disciple 4 (adds STR, gives us bonus natural armor that stacks with natural armor necklaces)
Sword Saint everything else (what's really important here is it helps us by adding Int to AC as a Dodge bonus, which stacks)

With the master artisan's potion and the +8 hat, I think you could get +9 of Canny Defense AC out of this, PLUS the Natural armor boost from the Dragon Disciple, making this MC a good tank (Plus, he's a monk, plus the CHA to AC, etc.)

The boosted STR from Dragon Disciple makes them decent in combat as well. Bonus to saves from CHA makes this character pass the vast majority of saving throws in late game as well.

The drawback of course is that this is a MAD build, requiring STR, CHA, INT (and Dex never hurts either)

tl;dr - I think I have a build that combines really good AC with really good saves and some decent combat power.
Posted April 19, 2019
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spyrer: Hi there InEffect, I'm a big fan of your work.

I'm curious what you'd think of this build for a tank:

Angelkin Aasimar (+Str, +Cha, wings option)
Sorcerer 1 (to open up dragon disciple)
Monk 1 (Scaled fist, adds CHA to AC, plus crane style)
Paladin 2 (Divine Hunter because why not, CHA to saves)
Sword Saint 1 (Building with Longswords to take advantage of the Perfection longsword later on)
Dragon Disciple 4 (adds STR, gives us bonus natural armor that stacks with natural armor necklaces)
Sword Saint everything else (what's really important here is it helps us by adding Int to AC as a Dodge bonus, which stacks)

With the master artisan's potion and the +8 hat, I think you could get +9 of Canny Defense AC out of this, PLUS the Natural armor boost from the Dragon Disciple, making this MC a good tank (Plus, he's a monk, plus the CHA to AC, etc.)

The boosted STR from Dragon Disciple makes them decent in combat as well. Bonus to saves from CHA makes this character pass the vast majority of saving throws in late game as well.

The drawback of course is that this is a MAD build, requiring STR, CHA, INT (and Dex never hurts either)

tl;dr - I think I have a build that combines really good AC with really good saves and some decent combat power.
why sorc? go with 2 levels of archaeologist instead. uncanny dodge and a feat and DD access, If you want sense vitals you gotta go a lot deeper into sorc to get any benefits
monk. no objections.
Paladin - why? you are already dipping everywhere. If you want those saves make any cleric cast Bestow Grace of the Champion on you.
4DD good. 3AC and 4 str.
Sword Saint. sure, why not. 9 or 11 levels of that are good. so SS11/archaeologist 2/M1/DD4/vivisectionist1 or something along the lines.
Guess that's for maximized Vital strike? that'd work
Post edited April 19, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 19, 2019
Great advice, thank you!

Bestow Grace of the Champion hadn't occurred to me as a long-term buff, but I do always bring a cleric.
Archaeologist is much better than sorcerer.

The reason I picked Sword Saint was to get another source of Dodge AC outside of the Crane feats.
Posted April 19, 2019
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spyrer: Great advice, thank you!

Bestow Grace of the Champion hadn't occurred to me as a long-term buff, but I do always bring a cleric.
Archaeologist is much better than sorcerer.

The reason I picked Sword Saint was to get another source of Dodge AC outside of the Crane feats.
hmm.. I sure would add dazzling / shatter defenses to your build plan. to actually hit things reliably. maybe power attack and cornugon as well. it;s still a bit off to me would need to calculate. maybe SS7 would be more profitable here to just grab lvl3 spells and AC. something like SS8/A2/DD4/M1/Duelist 5 for 16 BAB at 20 is not a totally lost case.
Post edited April 19, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 20, 2019
Interested in the bite-barian concept (many bites/attacks centered around sneak attack/Trip). Although I understand what the pet brings to the table, can't say I am a big fan of it RP wise, also seems that build would be strong even without it. Say you'd like to get rid of the pet, would you recommend going down Base Class barbarian to pick up the bite rage power?
Post edited April 20, 2019 by volklore
Posted April 20, 2019
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volklore: Interested in the bite-barian concept (many bites/attacks centered around sneak attack/Trip). Although I understand what the pet brings to the table, can't say I am a big fan of it RP wise, also seems that build would be strong even without it. Say you'd like to get rid of the pet, would you recommend going down Base Class barbarian to pick up the bite rage power?
would have to stock up on persuasion and get shatter defenses then to hit stuff somewhat reliably. And with motherless it'd be a bit of a pain and would put a lot of strain on your feats to compensate(persuasive and skill focus). Guess you could make him aldori10/M1/Alchemist 8/Stalwart1 or something like that. You'd lose barbarian bite, and fauchard CMB but otherwise it'd be fine because there is a dueling sword with CMB.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by InEffect
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect's Guide V2(1001 posts)(1001 posts)
(1001 posts)