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Lude001: Hello InEffect, I'm going to follow your advice and take along Val for tank/support, linzy for buff/control, tristian as the main heals, amiri for DD, and Jub. That leaves the MC for the tank/DD. I'm kind of at a loss on what to make. Can you recommend a good tank or offtank/dps build. It doesn't have to be a totally new one...I could use something you've already made as well. I don't mind multiclassing, I have all the DLCs and I"m fine with min/maxing. I appreciate it
Dex Scion would be my pick. Because Dex scion is my secret crush and they are both fun to play and strong.

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Party that I would actually advise would actually be
Valerie the Annoying Dragon - because you do want 1 full caster for waves of exhaustion.
+
True Follower of Urgathoa Jaethal - because She actually kills stuff. And heals are Overrated - summons to soak damage are a better healing than healing would ever be.
+
Jubilost - cause he is aweseome.
+
Linzy - Need a bard.
+
Kalikke/Kanerah - Damage and utility.
or
Off-Tank Nok-Nok - same but with off-tank stuffs. And Nok-Nok is my 2nd favorite companion to have

Good alternative would be
Valerie +
Harrim +
Jubilost +
Linzy +whatever

Mostly because it is stronger, has more things to do and covers more bases.
This is not to discourage you to play as you want - quite the opposite. posted just in case someone else would read it.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by InEffect
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Lude001: Hello InEffect, I'm going to follow your advice and take along Val for tank/support, linzy for buff/control, tristian as the main heals, amiri for DD, and Jub. That leaves the MC for the tank/DD. I'm kind of at a loss on what to make. Can you recommend a good tank or offtank/dps build. It doesn't have to be a totally new one...I could use something you've already made as well. I don't mind multiclassing, I have all the DLCs and I"m fine with min/maxing. I appreciate it
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InEffect: Dex Scion would be my pick. Because Dex scion is my secret crush and they are both fun to play and strong.

====

Party that I would actually advise would actually be
Valerie the Annoying Dragon - because you do want 1 full caster for waves of exhaustion.
+
True Follower of Urgathoa Jaethal - because She actually kills stuff. And heals are Overrated - summons to soak damage are a better healing than healing would ever be.
+
Jubilost - cause he is aweseome.
+
Linzy - Need a bard.
+
Kalikke/Kanerah - Damage and utility.
or
Off-Tank Nok-Nok - same but with off-tank stuffs. And Nok-Nok is my 2nd favorite companion to have

Good alternative would be
Valerie +
Harrim +
Jubilost +
Linzy +whatever

Mostly because it is stronger, has more things to do and covers more bases.
This is not to discourage you to play as you want - quite the opposite. posted just in case someone else would read it.
Awesome! Thank you so much for the suggestions. I'll be giving it a whirl right now
hey ineffect, i'm looking to start up a new run as an chaotic evil MC, any of your builds you'd suggest?
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IAmBecomeDeath: hey ineffect, i'm looking to start up a new run as an chaotic evil MC, any of your builds you'd suggest?
Depends on what you want out of it. I guess the question is more about how CE limits builds.
1. No monk. Meaning no dex tanks for ye.
2. No Paladin. Not really important.
That leaves heavy armor tanks and glass canons.
For a tank it'd either be some brand of dragon disciple gish or Alchemist6/812+something most likely. For a glass canon you can pick up some sorc or kineticist - either works.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by InEffect
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LordSerion: Ok, may I see both options? I assume 1) is more viable unless I can craft scrolls, especially high-tier spells like Tsunami.
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InEffect: Octavia more or less how those go. could be more optimal with s few tweak here and there but the general Idea is the same.

Scroll savant would be likely akin to https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post25 conjuror(at least foci and summoning if not the school itself). Scrolls are found in bulk everywhere and are sold by a merchant that scales with arcane rank of the kingdom. You will have to decide as I'm not doing 2 builds, sorry. Those are time-consuming to do and I hope people would take my time with a bit of respect.
OK, taking Octavia as baseline what'd the tweaks be?
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InEffect: Octavia more or less how those go. could be more optimal with s few tweak here and there but the general Idea is the same.

Scroll savant would be likely akin to https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post25 conjuror(at least foci and summoning if not the school itself). Scrolls are found in bulk everywhere and are sold by a merchant that scales with arcane rank of the kingdom. You will have to decide as I'm not doing 2 builds, sorry. Those are time-consuming to do and I hope people would take my time with a bit of respect.
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LordSerion: OK, taking Octavia as baseline what'd the tweaks be?
I'll make you one
Wiz/AT/Generalist for LordSerion
*I still say anyone, but scroll savant is better off as a conjueror with opposing school enchantment. Nothing of value would be lost And you’d get +1DC and a spell slot per level.

Race: Human*
Alignment: Any Evil
*We do have a good use for the feat offered and it’s not like we are too thrilled about anything other races have to offer. I guess Half-Elf or Half-Orc wouldn't be so bad either.

Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 19
Wis: 7*
Cha: 14
*Can equalize it with cha if you really want to.

Final Build: Wizard 9/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 1/Arcane Trickster 10

Main skills: Mobility 5, Trickery 5, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Persuasion Max, Trickery Max, UMD(Spare)
Suggested secondary skills: Arcana, World, Stealth, Mobility

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Wizard - Point-Blank Shot // Spell Focus: Conjuration // Spell Specialization // Bonded Object
Lvl 2: Wizard
Lvl 3: Wizard - Precise Soot
Lvl 4: Wizard
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 6: Arcane Trickster
Lvl 7: Arcane Trickster - Spell Focus: Conjuration
Lvl 8: Arcane Trickster
Lvl 9: Arcane Trickster - Metamagic: Heighten Spell
Lvl 10: Arcane Trickster
Lvl 11: Arcane Trickster - Weapon Focus: Ray
Lvl 12: Arcane Trickster
Lvl 13: Arcane Trickster - Dazzling Display
Lvl 14: Arcane Trickster
Lvl 15: Arcane Trickster - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 16: Wizard - Metamagic: Quicken Spell
Lvl 17: Wizard - Skill Focus: Persuasion
Lvl 18: Wizard
Lvl 19: Wizard - Spell Focus: Evocation
Lvl 20: Wizard

Good Spells to have in order of importance:
Lvl 1: Summon Monster I, True Strike, Grease, Vanish, Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Shield, Reduce Person, Enlarge Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Color Spray
Lvl 2: Summon Monster II, Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Sense Vitals, Web, Scorching Ray, Acid Arrow
Lvl 3: Stinking Cloud, Spiked Pit, Haste, Displacement, Battering Blast, Summon Monster III, Resist Energy(Communal), Heroism
Lvl 4: Animate Dead, Dimension Door, Acid Pit, Enervation, Greater Invisibility, Volcanic Storm, Stoneskin, Protection from Energy(Communal), Remove Curse
Lvl 5: Acid Spray, Hungry Pit, Cloudkill, Angelic Aspect, Geniekind, Echolocation, Break Enchantment
Lvl 6: Chain Lightning, Hellfire Ray, Heroism(Greater), Dispel Magic(Greater)
Lvl 7: Waves of Exhaustion, Legendary Proportions, Firebrand, Summon Monster VII
Lvl 8: Rift of Ruin, Angelic Aspect(Greater), Seamantle, Summon Monster VIII, Protection From Spells, Frightful Aspect
Lvl 9: Clashing Rocks, Fiery Body, Tsunami, Mind Blank(Communal)

Alchemist Spell(s)

Spell Specialization:
Lvl 1-5 Latest Summon Monster
Lvl 6-9 Spiked Pit
Lvl 10-14 Acid Spray
Lvl 15-18 Hungry Pit
Lvl 19-20 Battering Blast

Gear: +4 Int staff from goblin merchant(Need to finish varnhold DLC and find it there), +Stat items, Any Robes you like. Metamagic Rods. Ring of circumstances.

Skipped summoning feats in favor of shatter defences. Does not lean heavy on summons. Animate dead is enough to serve as a fodder.

Actually has decent damage with acid splash and other rays(Oddly enough game counts all ranged RTA’s as rays). Heightened Stinking Cloud Never gets old either. Enervation is good to kill Some things that are immune to damage like Troll in the house at the end.

Chain lighting is taken for Impromtu sneak attacks, but really is not mandatory - you might as well use acid spray for it if you want to.

Is a CL19 caster so 3 hellfire rays for 15d6x3+12d6 impromtu attacks to delete Endgame big boys.

Skipped Spell penetration as it’s not really needed. You have enough tools that ignore SR should you need it. And SR is far and between.

Heightened Stinking Cloud never goes out of fashion. Just cast communal delay poison on your guys from a scroll or a priest and you are good to go. Greatest challenge would be to stay awake so long as whatever you are fighting is not immune.

Quicken Rays for extra DPS. Quickened Rod for things like Dimension Door is nice as well, Quicken True Strikes to keep up the DPS from rays. You will get the hang of what works for you.

Nothing else important comes to mind.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by InEffect
I really liked the bitebarian build on your other page. Could you make a trip bite class like that only with chaotic evil instead?
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IAmBecomeDeath: I really liked the bitebarian build on your other page. Could you make a trip bite class like that only with chaotic evil instead?
Sure. Shouldn't be too hard although the AC will be lower.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by InEffect
Yeah I understand. I've already played through game twice as lawful good so I really want to see the chaotic and evil side of the game now lol. thanks dude

Also I wouldnt mind starting lawful evil, and going more chaotic over time, if that improvies the build at all. I hear the lawful evil kingdom appearnace is pretty cool.
Post edited April 20, 2019 by IAmBecomeDeath
MadLad build for IAmBecomeDeath

Race: Tiefling(Motherless)
Alignment: Any non-Lawful*
*or shifted there by lvl11

Stats:
Str: 19 > 24
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

Final Build: Fighter(Aldori Defender) 2 / Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16 / Barbarian 2

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion Max
Suggested secondary skills: Perception

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Fighter - Weapon Focus: Dueling Sword // Improved Unarmed Combat
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Fighter - Dodge (+2 Dex belt. Dropped from Sootscale, I think)
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Crane Style
Lvl 6: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Crane Wing
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Outflank
Lvl 8: Alchemist - Feral Wings
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Combat Expertise(any +2 int hat)
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Trip
Lvl 11: Barbarian - Greater Trip
Lvl 12: Barbarian - Animal Fury
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Dazzling Display
Lvl 14: Alchemist - Crippling Strike
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 16: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Power Attack
Lvl 18: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Dueling Sword
Lvl 20: Alchemist - Grand Mutagen

Spells:
Lvl1: Shield, True Strike, Enlarge Person
Lvl2: Barkskin, Restoration(Lesser)
Lvl3: Haste, Displacement, Heroism, Rage
Lvl4: Greater Invisibility, Echolocation, Restoration, Freedom of Movement
Lvl5: Spell Resistance, Stoneskin(Communal)
Lvl6: Transformation, Legendary Proportions

Gear: Dueling sword(off-hand free). Menace has +2CMB so that's not a bad pick, but have a back-up for ghosts. Mithral Heavy Plate, Ring of circumstances(+Str+Int), +AC gear, +Stat gear, Opportunist’s Boots. Cloak of the winter wolf for trips. And whatever else. 70 AC shouldn’t be too hard to do with all buffs if he hogs gyronna to himself. Touch AC sucks, but that's something we can do exactly nothing about.

Remember I said it should be easy enough to do? Scrap that. It was PITA. Hope you are happy.

Is stretched really thin, but gets everything he’d really want to have at a reasonable pace. Had to eventually drop Armor focus and Crane Riposte, but shouldn’t be of any real consequence.

Really wants to hog bokkens elixir to himself for 2nd lvl6 slot.

Fully buffed has 24+8(belt/plate)+8(Alchemical)+2(Ring)+2(bokken)+6(Legendary Proportions)=50 Strength.

Has 9d6 Sneak

Power attack for even more damage.

Gets 1.5 bonus damage from str and power attack

16 BaB and transformation for 20 should you need it.

Natural AC from transform, Legendary Proportions and Mutagen stacks.

Has Shatter defenses.

Barb is taken for bite and uncanny dodge.

Recommended for small party of persuasion EXP exploits. Preferably both as he really wants levels. Not that the progression is bad, but the end result is more than a sum of his parts.

Pretty sure this thing is unfair-viable.
Way more complicated than I signed up for xD
Post edited April 21, 2019 by InEffect
Being playing the bard build you made for me :D But ended up moving to reach weapons, at least for now. Playing more comfortable. Since I still havent reached weapon focus, Ive being able to use Glaive and Bardiche as I come across/buy them.
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Coralfang: Being playing the bard build you made for me :D But ended up moving to reach weapons, at least for now. Playing more comfortable. Since I still havent reached weapon focus, Ive being able to use Glaive and Bardiche as I come across/buy them.
well 2h sword is not exactly the best 2h weapon group in the game. That actually would be Axes. Those are plentiful and easy to get from artisans are pretty good and top axe is one of the best weapons in the game. 2h sword just seemed thematic to the concept you provided and they can be made to work given you have all buffs running, including shield from the alchemist. And there is always enlarge if you need reach.
Post edited April 21, 2019 by InEffect
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Coralfang: Being playing the bard build you made for me :D But ended up moving to reach weapons, at least for now. Playing more comfortable. Since I still havent reached weapon focus, Ive being able to use Glaive and Bardiche as I come across/buy them.
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InEffect: well 2h sword is not exactly the best 2h weapon group in the game. That actually would be Axes. Those are plentiful and easy to get from artisans are pretty good and top axe is one of the best weapons in the game. 2h sword just seemed thematic to the concept you provided and they can be made to work
dmg output wasnt the problem, it was that I was having to heal/rest too much, and with reach my bard doesnt get focused so much for the time being. Maybe will gravitate back to 2ft again.
But the fun of the build is the bard spells and bells and whistles. You got that right. Plus if I ended up with reach, I can focus Bardiche since Empire Soldiers use them as well. This playthru is going more RP-relaxed, so its all fitting in. Thank you very much for the build
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Coralfang: dmg output wasnt the problem, it was that I was having to heal/rest too much, and with reach my bard doesnt get focused so much for the time being. Maybe will gravitate back to 2ft again.
But the fun of the build is the bard spells and bells and whistles. You got that right. Plus if I ended up with reach, I can focus Bardiche since Empire Soldiers use them as well. This playthru is going more RP-relaxed, so its all fitting in. Thank you very much for the build
2h sword is not limited to 2ft. Even simple enlarge makes it a 5ft reach weapon and with legendary proportions it grows even more.
Post edited April 21, 2019 by InEffect