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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
(769 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 11, 2020
Thanks for the tips. I'm thinking deliverer and paladin might be the kings of melee in WotR. Especially with 24 hour buffs. You can get the Paly's divine weapon bond to last 24 hours. Divine damage is always great.The Hellknight was pretty underwhelming to be honest too. Especially, since he's dex. And, gnome hooked hammer focus. No companion respec is available yet, either.

As far as the alpha itself goes. Yes, there are plenty of bugs. But, most are minor. And the mythic classes are pretty cool. I get not wanting to pay for bug testing. I mean, we all did enough of that for free with PF:KM. But, if you're on lockdown it's something to kill time. They added a lot of ability and proc based weapons this time around too. Things that knock people prone in an area with a fort DC Check for instance. Or proc an aoe acid burn on enemies for the first hit in combat. So, we may be able to focus on things other than a straight trip build, just based on the items you have.
Post edited May 11, 2020 by Draskk
Posted May 11, 2020
Pal is nice, but like a lot of other melee classes it's very front-loaded. In 2 levels you get smite and saves. Might not be my first choice depending on how prevalent enemy CC/unavoidable damage types would be, but it's ok to have. On top of that you get smite for tough things and if you are divine guardian you can get troth for +4AC, which is not something I'd go out of my way for, but it's decent if you are going pal anyways. Pal weapon bond itself I'm not too impressed by, especially compared to the magus. I might give a bloodrager a spin depending on what subs they introduce.

I'm just going through my backlog of non-RPG's I've never had enough motivation to play. And trudograd for ATOM just released, so I'll probably give that a spin as well.
Post edited May 11, 2020 by InEffect
Posted May 11, 2020
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InEffect: Pal is nice, but like a lot of other melee classes it's very front-loaded. In 2 levels you get smite and saves. Might not be my first choice depending on how prevalent enemy CC/unavoidable damage types would be, but it's ok to have. On top of that you get smite for tough things and if you are divine guardian you can get troth for +4AC, which is not something I'd go out of my way for, but it's decent if you are going pal anyways. Pal weapon bond itself I'm not too impressed by, especially compared to the magus. I might give a bloodrager a spin, especially if they bring in enlightened one.

I'm just going through my backlog of non-RPG's I've never had enough motivation to play. And trudograd for ATOM just released, so I'll probably give that a spin as well.
You also have the option of opting out of the divine weapon bond and taking a mount/animal companion instead. Mounted combat is a little wonky right now though. And, your only choice is a smilodon(not a terrible only choice). Paly spells may be a bit more useful in this one with all of the demons, and I've had a lot of save based stuff. Not sure if it'll be worth the level investment in the end though.

Bloodrager would be a good fit for Demon mythic path, as you get a stacking, limitless, no negatives rage. Or, THF for that one. Depending on the crazy weapons that are availalbe.

ATOM was alright, play Disco Elysium if you haven't though. That was great.
Posted May 11, 2020
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Draskk: ATOM was alright, play Disco Elysium if you haven't though. That was great.
nah. I've watched 5 minutes of LP. I'm not into the novels. I'm one of the guys who never liked PST(and still don't). I like meaty RPGs that have some systems to sink my teeth in. If an above-average story is attached - the game gets to live forever on my drive. And some level of challenge is a must, cause otherwise tinkering with systems is rather pointless.
Post edited May 11, 2020 by InEffect
Posted May 11, 2020
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bertrambear85: Quick question for another playthrough - I am thinking of something more RP friendly - I've done the "min max" through Melee Sorc (completed game) and Sword Saint (75 percent). They played fairly similiarly (one man monster army and tank).

I was looking at your Slayer Build and the Aldori Investigator...how would these play on Challenging or Hard? Which was more "fun"?
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InEffect: Slayer would be viable for any difficulty. He has good enough of an AC ramp. Only thing I'd do would be frontloading archae1/DD4 for unfair.

The latter is pure RP concept. Don't expect any miracles there

I'm not sure about 'fun'. All melees play roughly the same. If you want something different in melee - you can try the shifter druid. Or, if you are partial to heavy micro, you can try booter.
Thanks - this is helpful. I haven't played a more magic or ranged build yet - so maybe I'll try one of those. Do you have a recommendation out of all of your ranged and/or magical builds?
Posted May 12, 2020
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bertrambear85: Thanks - this is helpful. I haven't played a more magic or ranged build yet - so maybe I'll try one of those. Do you have a recommendation out of all of your ranged and/or magical builds?
Arcane Archer from unfair guide should be pretty fun. You get to nuke stuff and you get an archer. Seems alright.
Posted May 12, 2020
What would you suggest for a deliverer tank/dps skillmonkey.

I was trying to make one that was SF1/Vivi1/Arch2/DD4/Deliverer 12. Angelkin Aasimar. But, it seemed like I was spreading him too thin. And, the sooner I could get divine anathema, the better. Weapon type didn't really matter, though there are a lot of cool effects in WotR. So, I was thinking either D/W or Sword and board.

I haven't even looked at whether or not you can still use a shield with crane.

I should also note that you can get unlimited rage and judgements with a mythic feat. Which might really mix up 1 level dips in those classes.
Post edited May 12, 2020 by Draskk
Posted May 12, 2020
InEffect, I finally played the build you made for me a while ago: https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post363. I have to say, it's definitely up there with the trip vivi and ahead of the Str. Saint in terms of melee DPS. The key is using an item you find in Pitax - the Steelwind sai. With that sai in the main hand (and transformation and haste on), you get 8 main hand attacks, 5 of which are at full BAB (1 base, 1 flurry, 1 haste, 2 greater speed). Plus you get three off-hand attacks and 1-2 bites (depending on whether you go human or motherless tiefling). Overall, you have 12-13 attacks with pretty high AB and really high sneak attack damage - 9d8 on weapon attacks (+9 from Quest Electri + 2d6 from Necklace of Double Crosses but Gyronna's Amulet is probably better). It's really a low micro build, and anything not immune to sneak attacks melts pretty quickly. The trip vivi, on the other hand, requires more micro to switch targets mid-round, which I'm not a huge fan of, and not every target is trippable, but it has a little more utility since tripped enemies are disabled. Overall, I think they're pretty similar in terms of end game power.
Posted May 12, 2020
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Draskk: What would you suggest for a deliverer tank/dps skillmonkey.

I was trying to make one that was SF1/Vivi1/Arch2/DD4/Deliverer 12. Angelkin Aasimar. But, it seemed like I was spreading him too thin. And, the sooner I could get divine anathema, the better. Weapon type didn't really matter, though there are a lot of cool effects in WotR. So, I was thinking either D/W or Sword and board.

I haven't even looked at whether or not you can still use a shield with crane.

I should also note that you can get unlimited rage and judgements with a mythic feat. Which might really mix up 1 level dips in those classes.
Deliverer doesn't gain much from the monk, unless you are dead set on going unarmored. From the sound of it, you actually want to be archaeologist 12/SF1/DD4/Slayer3(Or 2HF3 if not using oversized bastards or double weapons). With double weapons if you prefer. Or with a proper two-hander, which is what I'd do. Would likely want shield infusion from a local alchemist, but that's that.

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Rapsdjfff: InEffect, I finally played the build you made for me a while ago: https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post363. I have to say, it's definitely up there with the trip vivi and ahead of the Str. Saint in terms of melee DPS. The key is using an item you find in Pitax - the Steelwind sai. With that sai in the main hand (and transformation and haste on), you get 8 main hand attacks, 5 of which are at full BAB (1 base, 1 flurry, 1 haste, 2 greater speed). Plus you get three off-hand attacks and 1-2 bites (depending on whether you go human or motherless tiefling). Overall, you have 12-13 attacks with pretty high AB and really high sneak attack damage - 9d8 on weapon attacks (+9 from Quest Electri + 2d6 from Necklace of Double Crosses but Gyronna's Amulet is probably better). It's really a low micro build, and anything not immune to sneak attacks melts pretty quickly. The trip vivi, on the other hand, requires more micro to switch targets mid-round, which I'm not a huge fan of, and not every target is trippable, but it has a little more utility since tripped enemies are disabled. Overall, I think they're pretty similar in terms of end game power.
Proper saint/trip vivi can do upwards to 1500 average damage per turn depending on how many AoO's you can trigger. No D/W character can compete with that really. It's a solid build for what it is, although I probably should've made it with twin crystals.
Post edited May 12, 2020 by InEffect
Posted May 12, 2020
Is that DPR estimate for party or solo play? There are only so many ways to trigger AOOs when you're playing solo (mainly trip).
Posted May 12, 2020
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Rapsdjfff: Is that DPR estimate for party or solo play? There are only so many ways to trigger AOOs when you're playing solo (mainly trip).
with the party, although in case of trip vivi he can push around 1200 by himself.
Posted May 14, 2020
Hi InEffect!

The 19 vivi/ 1 figher build is working fine on normal (obviously) and it got me wondering, is a full vivisectionist without any feats into mutagens viable? Would a pure str vivi build be better with other feats instead of mutagen, except the free +2 at the start?


Thanks!
Posted May 14, 2020
I mean you can't just skip the whole point of the class and expect it to be 'better'.
Posted May 14, 2020
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InEffect: I mean you can't just skip the whole point of the class and expect it to be 'better'.
i get vivi is all about the mutagens but is it atleast an even tradeoff to get other feats instead of mutagens?
Posted May 14, 2020
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InEffect: I mean you can't just skip the whole point of the class and expect it to be 'better'.
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Harry_Azz: i get vivi is all about the mutagens but is it atleast an even tradeoff to get other feats instead of mutagens?
I mean, if you were looking at it purely as a level 20 build. You could do that. Given the Grand Mutagen discovery at 20. I'd probably follow InEffect's build on the way there and respec @20 if you're so inclined though. The stat stacking is hard to pass up.
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
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