Depending on a weapon choice. If you go serpent prince or vanquisher you can go V16/M1/THF3. Even if you go with armor monk level is 2 tempo feats, so that's nice. If you go oversized bastards - 2HF doesn't work, so you'd want something else there. Vivi in itself has enough of an AC ramp to not care much about anything else.

Thanks! Greataxes all the way!

Hey InEffect. Quick question, after fiddling around with more fun with the game's funky coding. May not be news given how much you've worked on builds, but it has me a little curious.

So it turns out, a Divine Guardian's Divine Troth they get at 3rd level can be applied to themselves. When I ran some tests with this, in exchange for 1 attack of opportunity it gave the paladin a +4 to their touch AC. Not 100% sure on the attack of opportunity count, but it did appear against multiple enemies in a single around with only one AoO available so it doesn't seem limited like in the PnP version.

4 points of touch AC seems like it could be a big tempo AC boost and personal immunity to fear for 1 additional paladin level over what someone might take for a dip for divine grace. Do you think that'd be worth exploring? Or is it too big of an opportunity cost.

I'll have to test it. But if it's 4 dodge AC it might be a good dip. that being said, a lot of top builds are too tight to introduce any dips to begin with.

InEffect,

1. Glad to see you creating builds and whatnot again, I feel like I've spent as much time enjoying all the theory crafting and tinkering as I have the game itself.

2. I know it's prolly not viable for unfair, but is there any "viable" way to create a str based two handed draconic Scion? Don't overly care if it's armored or not, some kinda Dragon Knight Paladin thing would be awesome. I know you can do the Sorc/DD/EK stuff, but I really dig the dragon wings you get from the deep trip into the bloodlines. Indulge my RP nonsense? <3

Bump!

That's pretty much Reggie. Can't do much there. Need DD4 and magus 15, so that leaves 1 floating level at best. Can be monk for better AC and tempo feats.

Sorry for the necro but can I ask for a stat spread on this one if it's still relevant? Really wanna play a MT. Yes I know it's kinda a trap but I can't find build anywheres for it.

Thank You IE!

Hi InEffect,

I was curious about Arcane Bombers so I did a bit of testing and learned a few things:
- Precise Bombs discovery works with Arcane Bombs.
- BOTH the Alchemist's Bombs and Arcane Bombs damage and DC scales with levels into Arcane Bomber. At Grenadier 2/Arcane Bomber 2 the bombs start doing 2d6 damage and increase every even level.
- Acerbic Ring double dips with Arcane Bombs, 1 ring increases the damage of Arcane Bombs by 2d6, 2 increase it by 4d6. While Alchemist's Bombs only get a 1d6 increase.
- Bombardier's Utility Belt and the feat Extra Bombs only increases the Alchemist's bomb uses per day, so it doesn't double dip.
- You have a shit load of bombs, more than an Alchemist of the same level, Alch base lvl + Int bonus + Bomber base lvl + Int bonus.

I've read a few posts that said that Precise Bombs doesn't work with Arcane Bombs, I took Grenadier levels first, maybe that's why it works.
I know you dislike the archetype, but do you think a Grenadier 2/Arcane Bomber 18 would be a viable Unfair build? I was thinking Conjuration focus early game and Necromancy late. I feel like it would be strong early game with so many bombs.

Lawful Evil Human
Grenadier 2/Arcane Bomber 18
8/16/12/19/10/12

Lvl 1: Alchemist - Point-Blank Shot // Precise Shot
Lvl 2: Alchemist - Choking Bombs
Lvl 3: Wizard - SF: Conjuration // Spell Specialization: Grease
Lvl 4: Wizard
Lvl 5: Wizard - Ability Focus: Bombs
Lvl 6: Wizard
Lvl 7: Wizard - Extra Bombs // GSF: Conjuration
Lvl 8: Wizard -
Lvl 9: Wizard - Heighten Spell
Lvl 10: Wizard
Lvl 11: Wizard - Skill focus: Persuasion
Lvl 12: Wizard - SF: Necromancy
Lvl 13: Wizard - GSF: Necromancy
Lvl 14: Wizard
Lvl 15: Wizard - WF: Bombs
Lvl 16: Wizard
Lvl 17: Wizard - Imp. Critical: Bombs // Quicken Spell
Lvl 18: Wizard
Lvl 19: Wizard - Improved Initiative
Lvl 20: Wizard

Having 4 opposition schools is a pain. I was thinking Evocation, Abjuration, Divination and Enchantment.
Would you change anything?

grenade wizard is ok. It's just worse than other things you can do on a wizard and with 4 schools cut you are pretty much a control wizard and all you get is a bit of damage.

As to the build... you don't need quicken since rods are a thing. And initiative that late won't do any good. You wouldn't care by then.

Last I checked if you pick grenadier before wizard it bugged out and you only had grenadier bombs while by tabletop you should've gotten bomb progression from a wizard. And with taking grenadier after wizard you were not getting d6 from him, just the passives. I reported it like a year ago, didn't see anything about it in the patch notes since. It's a bit better if it was fixed, although I'd opt for force bombs should that be the case.

Quick question for another playthrough - I am thinking of something more RP friendly - I've done the "min max" through Melee Sorc (completed game) and Sword Saint (75 percent). They played fairly similiarly (one man monster army and tank).

I was looking at your Slayer Build and the Aldori Investigator...how would these play on Challenging or Hard? Which was more "fun"?

Slayer would be viable for any difficulty. He has good enough of an AC ramp. Only thing I'd do would be frontloading archae1/DD4 for unfair.

The latter is pure RP concept. Don't expect any miracles there

I'm not sure about 'fun'. All melees play roughly the same. If you want something different in melee - you can try the shifter druid. Or, if you are partial to heavy micro, you can try booter.

Longtime lurker here. Have really enjoyed your builds. I was wondering if you have any advice on the WotR classes. It seems that you've looked at the PnP versions a lot, so I'm guessing you'll have some insight for me.

Oracle, Witch and Shaman. Do you even multiclass these? Or, do you typically use them as clerics? It seems that throwing another class in with them will gimp their progression, but I could be wrong. I could see using one of them as a dip for the iceplant hex (+2 Natural AC). They don't have all of the subclasses in yet, but I'm working with companions here and a lot of them start at level 3. The Zen archer is particularly infuriating as he has a bunch of uneven stat numbers(including a pumped dex score for some reason). I can post more about them if you'd like. If you'd rather wait for the game to get released though, I won't bother.

The hexes are kinda made to give you something better than cantrips to do when not casting, so running melee or whatever else kinda runs counter to that. I know shaman is melee-oriented and non-lawful in wotr, and she's dex on top of that so I'm unsure I'd use her at all. She'll never have damage and probably won't have suitability either.

Oracle will have to wait. They didn't bring all the coolest mysteries, but there is time still. Otherwise it's a make your own cleric domain kinda thing. Can be good or useless.

Witch is fine, but same deal as with oracle. A lot of cool hexes are just nowhere to be found and we don't know what items would be like. Otherwise it's just a different way of wizard stuff. Pretty sure new king of the hill when it comes to magic would be illusion with phantasmal webs and other goodies since demons don't give a damn about poison. And witch doesn't get phantasmal web, so would have to dig around and see what CC/damage options she actually would have apart from hexes.

Zen archer despite a bunch of odd stats would likely be the best divine character in the game since you can make him a cleric of some decent god like erastil or abadar instead of the cripples the game tries to force on you. I can live with a bit less stats for that. And clerics don't mind being archers either since they don't like being close the the frontline. Not very useful in the beta, but in full game it'll be different. Not in the least cause you will get at least some of companions at level 1 and that one does have a chance to be one of them.

Paladin gal will have to be a bard since we can live without a paladin and can't without a bard.

As I see it, paladin/bard and zen archer/cleric will be in most any party if only cause you do need both of the classes and getting a serviceable ones at no opportunity cost is nice. That also means you just need 1 tank/DD and 1 good arcane caster and you an grab whatever meme crew you want for the last two slots. Most of the roster seems to be made with the sole reason of not letting players to have any agency over the builds, so if you were to play with companions monk and pal are really the only two that are kinda open for building.

That's my thoughts rn anyways. I didn't pledge for the alpha and didn't give them a dime yet. I did see some screens and have a general idea of it. I don't want to be a guinea pig and find bugs for them and to pay for the privilege at that. I'll get the game on the 1st sale after release maybe. unless someone gifts it to me earlier, which is unlikely.