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P-Stache: Hello InEffect!

Do you have a build recommendation for oversized bastard swords? How could they be min-maxed?

Thanks in advance.
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InEffect: Something that can fit in GVS and at least a cleaving finish. Greater one, preferably. The rest is just lead blades and legendary proportions. There is a booter build in the main section that might be of use. If you are not planning on using iterative attacks anyways might as well get something useful out of it. For unfair it'd be more of a monk build and I'd toss things around to be SF1/Booter10/Archae2/DD4/2HF3. Another option is to be a saint with GVS Bastard, but I'm not a huge fan of it.

It's because what's good about oversized bastards would be weapon damage dice, so only reasonable way to scale it would be to multiply said dice. A lot. Lead blades wand is of limited supply, so booter is a pretty natural choice. The downside is it's really hard to fit in greater cleave there, but it's usually not needed. Not so often you have a bunch of one-shot things around and when you do, you party will usually chew through them fast anyways..
I've attempted a build based on your advice on scaled fist oversized bastard sword wielder and the armored freebooter build in the other thread. I'm not entirely sure about my choices, could you please check and read this through and see if there are glaring mistakes or how to otherwise possibly optimize this, for example regarding stats and feat choices? I wish it to be able to do well even above challenging.

Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 15 < 16 @ 5 (How could these stats be further min-maxed?)

Build: Monk (Scaled Fist) 1/ Bard (Archaelogist) 2/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Ranger (Freebooter) 10/ Two-Handed Fighter 3

Lvl 1: Monk - Exotic: Bastard, Dodge, Crane Style
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Weapon Focus: Bastard, Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Outflank, Two-Handed Weapon > Cleave
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Crane Wing, Power Attack
Lvl 8: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Cleaving Finish
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Vital Strike
Lvl 12: Fighter - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 13: Fighter - Improved Vital Strike, Great Cleave
Lvl 14: Fighter
Lvl 15: Ranger - Improved Cleaving Finish
Lvl 16: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 17: Ranger - Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
Lvl 18: Ranger
Lvl 19: Ranger - Greater Vital Strike
Lvl 20: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Dreadful Carnage

Spell choices:
Expeditous Retreat, Vanish, Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart
Mirror Image, Blur, Sense Vitals

(Draconic Bloodline: Copper, Favored Terrain - Forest, Favored Terrain - Underground, what options are recommended here?)
Post edited April 09, 2020 by P-Stache
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InEffect: Something that can fit in GVS and at least a cleaving finish. Greater one, preferably. The rest is just lead blades and legendary proportions. There is a booter build in the main section that might be of use. If you are not planning on using iterative attacks anyways might as well get something useful out of it. For unfair it'd be more of a monk build and I'd toss things around to be SF1/Booter10/Archae2/DD4/2HF3. Another option is to be a saint with GVS Bastard, but I'm not a huge fan of it.

It's because what's good about oversized bastards would be weapon damage dice, so only reasonable way to scale it would be to multiply said dice. A lot. Lead blades wand is of limited supply, so booter is a pretty natural choice. The downside is it's really hard to fit in greater cleave there, but it's usually not needed. Not so often you have a bunch of one-shot things around and when you do, you party will usually chew through them fast anyways..
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P-Stache: I've attempted a build based on your advice on scaled fist oversized bastard sword wielder and the armored freebooter build in the other thread. I'm not entirely sure about my choices, could you please check and read this through and see if there are glaring mistakes or how to otherwise possibly optimize this, for example regarding stats and feat choices? I wish it to be able to do well even above challenging.

Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 15 < 16 @ 5 (How could these stats be further min-maxed?)

Build: Monk (Scaled Fist) 1/ Bard (Archaelogist) 2/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Ranger (Freebooter) 10/ Two-Handed Fighter 3

Lvl 1: Monk - Exotic: Bastard, Dodge, Crane Style
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Weapon Focus: Bastard, Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Outflank, Two-Handed Weapon > Cleave
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Crane Wing, Power Attack
Lvl 8: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Cleaving Finish
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Vital Strike
Lvl 12: Fighter - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 13: Fighter - Improved Vital Strike, Great Cleave
Lvl 14: Fighter
Lvl 15: Ranger - Improved Cleaving Finish
Lvl 16: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 17: Ranger - Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
Lvl 18: Ranger
Lvl 19: Ranger - Greater Vital Strike
Lvl 20: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Dreadful Carnage

Spell choices:
Expeditous Retreat, Vanish, Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart
Mirror Image, Blur, Sense Vitals

(Draconic Bloodline: Copper, Favored Terrain - Forest, Favored Terrain - Underground, what options are recommended here?)
If you take menacing instead that'd save you 1-2 feats depending on if you take the focus or not. You also don't need dreadful Just get a bard with dirge and improved crit at ra10. And shift fighter to 17-20 as a luxury - you don't need armor access. Otherwise looks solid. stats could be 18/15/12/7/10/16 as you are not casting ranger things till late-game and I probably would toss ranger after archae/DD is done since you'd be using staff for a good whilem unless you want to abuse the fact that shields work with monk AC for the earlygame tanking. And don't forget to grab jubi for a ride and take infusion on him asap to give yourself shield.
Post edited April 09, 2020 by InEffect
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P-Stache: I've attempted a build based on your advice on scaled fist oversized bastard sword wielder and the armored freebooter build in the other thread. I'm not entirely sure about my choices, could you please check and read this through and see if there are glaring mistakes or how to otherwise possibly optimize this, for example regarding stats and feat choices? I wish it to be able to do well even above challenging.

Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 14
Cha: 15 < 16 @ 5 (How could these stats be further min-maxed?)

Build: Monk (Scaled Fist) 1/ Bard (Archaelogist) 2/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Ranger (Freebooter) 10/ Two-Handed Fighter 3

Lvl 1: Monk - Exotic: Bastard, Dodge, Crane Style
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Weapon Focus: Bastard, Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Outflank, Two-Handed Weapon > Cleave
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Crane Wing, Power Attack
Lvl 8: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Cleaving Finish
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Vital Strike
Lvl 12: Fighter - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 13: Fighter - Improved Vital Strike, Great Cleave
Lvl 14: Fighter
Lvl 15: Ranger - Improved Cleaving Finish
Lvl 16: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 17: Ranger - Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
Lvl 18: Ranger
Lvl 19: Ranger - Greater Vital Strike
Lvl 20: Ranger - Two-Handed Weapon > Dreadful Carnage

Spell choices:
Expeditous Retreat, Vanish, Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart
Mirror Image, Blur, Sense Vitals

(Draconic Bloodline: Copper, Favored Terrain - Forest, Favored Terrain - Underground, what options are recommended here?)
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InEffect: If you take menacing instead that'd save you 1-2 feats depending on if you take the focus or not. You also don't need dreadful Just get a bard with dirge and improved crit at ra10. And shift fighter to 17-20 as a luxury - you don't need armor access. Otherwise looks solid. stats could be 18/15/12/7/10/16 as you are not casting ranger things till late-game and I probably would toss ranger after archae/DD is done since you'd be using staff for a good whilem unless you want to abuse the fact that shields work with monk AC for the earlygame tanking. And don't forget to grab jubi for a ride and take infusion on him asap to give yourself shield.
Thank you so much! I'll try and adapt the build further according to your feedback. I'm just a bit confused by what do you mean by moving Ranger after Bard/DD as doesn't getting access to DD require me to have the Knowledge Arcana 5 first? Would you possibly have any additional gameplay tips on how to play such a character? Sorry for asking so many questions!
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P-Stache: doesn't getting access to DD require me to have the Knowledge Arcana 5 first? Would you possibly have any additional gameplay tips on how to play such a character? Sorry for asking so many questions!
oh right. my bad. I usually take it bit later. I'd probably still go menacing even if that means shatter at 13 and just used improved invis from my pet caster in the meantime with extend rod you can steal from crag lynnorm
so, since this is interesting I made some testing. They still didn't fix oversized bastards not getting the 2HF bonus after all the time. Was adamant they did for some reason. So just swap it with whatever you like better. I'd probably go 3 vivi, cause there is nothing better to grab. Could also be 3 slayer or 2 pal 1 fighter. so for me it looks like

vl 1: Monk - Exotic: Bastard, Dodge, Crane Style
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Weapon Focus: Bastard, Combat Trick > Combat Reflexes
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Outflank, Menacing > Intimidating Prowess(for skill checks)
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Crane Wing, Power Attack
Lvl 8: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Vital Strike
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Cleave
Lvl 12: Ranger
Lvl 13: Ranger - Cleaving Finish, Mencaing>Shatter
Lvl 14: Ranger
Lvl 15: Ranger - Imp. Vital Strike
Lvl 16: Ranger
Lvl 17: Ranger - Greater Cleave, Imp. Crit
Lvl 18: Alch
Lvl 19: Alch - Greater Vital Strike, CT>Imp Cleaving Finish
Lvl 20: Alch

Seems alright. Pretty much just switched your thing to menacing and added combat reflexes cause you need those.
Would be better with fighter, but with owlcat messing it up it's of no use to us. Costs us 1 feat that would be crane riposte for 1 more AB, but it doesn't matter much. Would also love to trade focus for riposte, but I don't think there is anything I could shuffle to get to it faster. Could use 2H style, but it wouldn't speed up anything as far as I can see and would effectively trade intimidating for dazzling. Another option is to go power from menacing and toughness from dragon. I don't value HP that much and you are getting enough boosts everywhere to not care so long as you are not getting one-shot..
Post edited April 09, 2020 by InEffect
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InEffect: so, since this is interesting I made some testing. They still didn't fix oversized bastards not getting the 2HF bonus after all the time. Was adamant they did for some reason. So just swap it with whatever you like better. I'd probably go 3 vivi, cause there is nothing better to grab. Could also be 3 slayer or 2 pal 1 fighter. so for me it looks like

vl 1: Monk - Exotic: Bastard, Dodge, Crane Style
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Weapon Focus: Bastard, Combat Trick > Combat Reflexes
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Outflank, Menacing > Intimidating Prowess(for skill checks)
Lvl 6: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 7: Dragon Disciple - Crane Wing, Power Attack
Lvl 8: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Vital Strike
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Cleave
Lvl 12: Ranger
Lvl 13: Ranger - Cleaving Finish, Mencaing>Shatter
Lvl 14: Ranger
Lvl 15: Ranger - Imp. Vital Strike
Lvl 16: Ranger
Lvl 17: Ranger - Greater Cleave, Imp. Crit
Lvl 18: Alch
Lvl 19: Alch - Greater Vital Strike, CT>Imp Cleaving Finish
Lvl 20: Alch

Seems alright. Pretty much just switched your thing to menacing and added combat reflexes cause you need those.
Would be better with fighter, but with owlcat messing it up it's of no use to us. Costs us 1 feat that would be crane riposte for 1 more AB, but it doesn't matter much. Would also love to trade focus for riposte, but I don't think there is anything I could shuffle to get to it faster. Could use 2H style, but it wouldn't speed up anything as far as I can see and would effectively trade intimidating for dazzling. Another option is to go power from menacing and toughness from dragon. I don't value HP that much and you are getting enough boosts everywhere to not care so long as you are not getting one-shot..
Thank you for looking into it further. Too bad the 2hf doesn't work with large bastard swords. How do you feel the build does overall compared to other two handed builds you have tried and put together?
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P-Stache: Thank you for looking into it further. Too bad the 2hf doesn't work with large bastard swords. How do you feel the build does overall compared to other two handed builds you have tried and put together?
It's a nice party build. Everything that isn't saint or trip vivi performs roughly the same given you play into the strengths of it. As far as large bastards are concerned it's the best application, imo since you can do quite a bit of good with your move actions on a booter and you get lead blades for every encounter and not just for very important ones as you would have to do with the wand. And you get to be a human fireball with big AoE damages. Not to mention booter buffs are actually nice.
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P-Stache: Thank you for looking into it further. Too bad the 2hf doesn't work with large bastard swords. How do you feel the build does overall compared to other two handed builds you have tried and put together?
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InEffect: It's a nice party build. Everything that isn't saint or trip vivi performs roughly the same given you play into the strengths of it. As far as large bastards are concerned it's the best application, imo since you can do quite a bit of good with your move actions on a booter and you get lead blades for every encounter and not just for very important ones as you would have to do with the wand. And you get to be a human fireball with big AoE damages. Not to mention booter buffs are actually nice.
I'd like to ask about the weapon progression. Are there any magical large bastard swords in early-mid game or should I use something else such as the flaming staff I've seen you mention elsewhere ? What are some of the weapons I should be aiming for? Once again thank you and I hope you know you are greatly appreciated!
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P-Stache: I'd like to ask about the weapon progression. Are there any magical large bastard swords in early-mid game or should I use something else such as the flaming staff I've seen you mention elsewhere ? What are some of the weapons I should be aiming for? Once again thank you and I hope you know you are greatly appreciated!
You pretty much go with staff till varn... then if you chose 'I want power' option in the DLC you'd get the oversized bastard. Don't think there is any one to get sooner than that.
Post edited April 10, 2020 by InEffect
Hi InEffect,
Do enemies typically have any insight or competence bonuses? I cant seem to find this on the ledger. I also don't understand why this is Swordlord's ultimate feat. The whole thing is so much worse than even normal aldori. Everything beyond lv1 is just nonsense. All that effort for like 2 points of attack bonus.
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vnth: Hi InEffect,
Do enemies typically have any insight or competence bonuses? I cant seem to find this on the ledger. I also don't understand why this is Swordlord's ultimate feat. The whole thing is so much worse than even normal aldori. Everything beyond lv1 is just nonsense. All that effort for like 2 points of attack bonus.
SL is garbage. I don't know why would anyone waste so many levels for dubious gains. Even level 1 is garbage because best aldori sword is agile. Even if you really want aldori swords - just go with any other agile weapon till you can kill owlbears at the witch hut, which is doable at level 8 give or take if you put a bit of effort in even on unfair.
Post edited April 11, 2020 by InEffect
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vnth: Hi InEffect,
Do enemies typically have any insight or competence bonuses? I cant seem to find this on the ledger. I also don't understand why this is Swordlord's ultimate feat. The whole thing is so much worse than even normal aldori. Everything beyond lv1 is just nonsense. All that effort for like 2 points of attack bonus.
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InEffect: SL is garbage. I don't know why would anyone waste so many levels for dubious gains. Even level 1 is garbage because best aldori sword is agile. Even if you really want aldori swords - just go with any other agile weapon till you can kill owlbears at the witch hut, which is doable at level 8 give or take if you put a bit of effort in even on unfair.
Wait, agile weapons use 1.5 dex mod? I didn't know this literally until now. lol SL is hilarious useless then.
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vnth: Wait, agile weapons use 1.5 dex mod? I didn't know this literally until now. lol SL is hilarious useless then.
No, but dex scaling is miserable, so it's better to twf or twf with shield anyways. which agile weapons actually can do.
Post edited April 11, 2020 by InEffect
The SL guide for the pnp version recommends thug (presumably 10 lv) as the base class? Would that work? I hate chasing down enemies regardless. But still an option.

Otherwise I think maybe a strength dw fighter. Another weapon to supplement some damage. Minimal synergy from Adaptive Tactics.

I looked up various other sources and the way SL was explained to me that it was designed to be flexible. If you are a dex aldori you take 1 lv dip. The rest is for strength aldoris. Im still unsure how str aldori is going to benefit but that may be the way to go.
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vnth: The SL guide for the pnp version recommends thug (presumably 10 lv) as the base class? Would that work? I hate chasing down enemies regardless. But still an option.

Otherwise I think maybe a strength dw fighter. Another weapon to supplement some damage. Minimal synergy from Adaptive Tactics.

I looked up various other sources and the way SL was explained to me that it was designed to be flexible. If you are a dex aldori you take 1 lv dip. The rest is for strength aldoris. Im still unsure how str aldori is going to benefit but that may be the way to go.
Str aldori benefits in a way that he;s more likely to need extra AC from CE. With that helmet and SL levels your expertise is pretty much free... As to if that is worth 8 levels... Well.. Take a guess. I tested SL with rogue when it just came out and it was getting 2x stat damage, but I believe that was fixed, unless that bug came back in recent patches.
Post edited April 11, 2020 by InEffect