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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 21, 2019
Thanks for your quick answer InEffect.

Sorry for more questions: What is that "dip" i read it very often. Like monk dip, pala dip. Does it mean if someone put only a few points into 1 class like monk /rogue for some special feature?

I made a new runthrough bec. my paladin was rly awful and not awful @ allignmen ^^

So i cannot rly decide between paladin again and monk tank (with a few points into rogue with that talent which gives dex dps multiplicator or so). Any suggestion? Its only on normal.

Have a nice evening/night.
Post edited October 21, 2019 by Cartesii
Posted October 21, 2019
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Cartesii: Thanks for your quick answer InEffect.

Sorry for more questions: What is that "dip" i read it very often. Like monk dip, pala dip. Does it mean if someone put only a few points into 1 class like monk /rogue for some special feature?

I made a new runthrough bec. my paladin was rly awful and not awful @ allignmen ^^

So i cannot rly decide between paladin again and monk tank (with a few points into rogue with that talent which gives dex dps multiplicator or so). Any suggestion? Its only on normal.

Have a nice evening/night.
Dip is when you take a level or two in another class. As to paladin vs monk... why not both? there is a monkadin build in the main thread. Should be serviceable enough. Below unfair, at least.
Post edited October 21, 2019 by InEffect
Posted October 21, 2019
hello In Effect

i want to know if it's possible to build me a character ?

I like the concept of cleric / fighter ( multi or not ) or crusader. ( In the Name of god... BAM !! In your face ! ) :)
A character than can make some descents damages and heal the party
For the race : aasimar or human or dwarf

I play on hard now.

Thanks you in advance

Joms'
Posted October 21, 2019
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Cartesii: Thanks for your quick answer InEffect.

Sorry for more questions: What is that "dip" i read it very often. Like monk dip, pala dip. Does it mean if someone put only a few points into 1 class like monk /rogue for some special feature?

I made a new runthrough bec. my paladin was rly awful and not awful @ allignmen ^^

So i cannot rly decide between paladin again and monk tank (with a few points into rogue with that talent which gives dex dps multiplicator or so). Any suggestion? Its only on normal.

Have a nice evening/night.
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InEffect: Dip is when you take a level or two in another class. As to paladin vs monk... why not both? there is a monkadin build in the main thread. Should be serviceable enough. Below unfair, at least.
I have alrdy started with a (bg 2) sensei +like+ character here named Sword saint or so. And amiri will be like an offtank, it works very good till now. :) but thanks!

Hm is a longsword or estoc better for a Sword saint? I have no DLC for other good weapons from that mega dungeon.
Post edited October 22, 2019 by Cartesii
Posted November 17, 2019
Can someone please review this?

Sage sorcerer (pure)

Str 7 (+2 from potion +8 from belt) = 17
Dex 16 (+2 from potion +8 from belt) = 26
Con 14 (+2 from potion +8 from belt) = 24
Int 18 (+4 from levels + 2 from Human +2 from Ring of Circumstances
+2 from potion +8 from Dark Master Robe) = 36
Wis 7 (+2 from potion +8 from hat) = 17
Cha 13 (+1 from level +2 from potion +8 from hat) =24

1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, SF: Conjuration
3: Skill focus: Persuasion
5: Spell Specialization
7: Heighten Spell, SF: Evocation
9: Spell Penetrate
11: Greater Spell Penetrate
13: GSF: Conjuration, GSF: Evocation
15: Persuasive
17: Deceitful
19: Improved Critical: Ray, SF: Illusion

Spells
1: Burning hand, Grease, Mage Armor, Magic Missile (H), Shield, True Strike
2: Glitterdust, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Schorching ray (H), Sense vitals, Web (H)
3: Dispel, Haste, Heroism, See invisibility comm, Stinking cloud (H)
4: Animate dead, Boneshatter (H), Controlled fireball (H), Dimension door, Enervation (H), Phantasmak killer (H)
5: Baleful polymorph (H), Break enchantment, Cloudkill (H), Fire snake (H), Shadow evocation (H)
6: Acid fog (H), Disintegrate (H), Hellfire ray (H), Sirocco (H), True seeing
7: Banishment (H), Create undead (H), Summon 7 (H), Umbral struke (H)
8: Death clutch (H), Polar ray (H), PW: Stun (H), Rift of ruin (H), Stormbolts (H)
9: Clashing rocks, Fiery body, Mass Icy Prison (H), Weird (H)

Gear
Hat of mental perfection +8
Cloak of resistance +6
Ring of circumstances
Great Dreamer's Smile
Bracers of armor +8
Burning Amulet / Golden Tongue
Dark Master's Robe
Belt of physical perfection +8
Butterfly wings
Owlbear skin boots

On belt: The Quest Electri, Greater Extend Rod, Greater Reach Rod, Quicken Rod, Grandmaster Rod

Weapon: Elemental Squall





Also, can someone tell me a viable pure Slayer or Slayer + Ranger/Fighter build?
Posted November 18, 2019
1. You didn't mention focus school, but I would strongly suggest not going for conjuration sage. You don't need that much DC on reflex/fortitude. Considering you ain't going AT either I'd suggest illusion as a focus school for the class as that's what really profits from DC's. Necro would be another option, but it's way too easy to ramp necro DC's without the class +2 if you want to go that route. Start as a conjueror and then add 2nd school.
2. Weapon. I don't see why you are going sage if you don't have access to varn DLC and profane staff from it. Go gnome arcane instead if that's the case. And even if not that +3 animate dead staff is better than a +3 crossbow.
3. Rays. You don't need those at all if you don't have AT levels. The damage just won't be there, so not worth the effort. Same with evo foci. Just not worth it. Without AT evo is the worst school in the game.
4. Spells. You don't have echo and improved invis for starters. I won't mention bunch of useless spells, but you need at least those.
5. Don't need spell pen. You can count SR enemies on one hand and there are loads of no-SR spells for those.
6. illusion calls for those bracers, so those should be on the table.
7. Playing sorc with no AC ramp and taking +AC items is not exactly good. Those won't help anyways.
8, Int18 start is not great. Cut something and start from 19.
Post edited November 18, 2019 by InEffect
Posted November 19, 2019
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InEffect: 1. You didn't mention focus school, but I would strongly suggest not going for conjuration sage. You don't need that much DC on reflex/fortitude. Considering you ain't going AT either I'd suggest illusion as a focus school for the class as that's what really profits from DC's. Necro would be another option, but it's way too easy to ramp necro DC's without the class +2 if you want to go that route. Start as a conjueror and then add 2nd school.
2. Weapon. I don't see why you are going sage if you don't have access to varn DLC and profane staff from it. Go gnome arcane instead if that's the case. And even if not that +3 animate dead staff is better than a +3 crossbow.
3. Rays. You don't need those at all if you don't have AT levels. The damage just won't be there, so not worth the effort. Same with evo foci. Just not worth it. Without AT evo is the worst school in the game.
4. Spells. You don't have echo and improved invis for starters. I won't mention bunch of useless spells, but you need at least those.
5. Don't need spell pen. You can count SR enemies on one hand and there are loads of no-SR spells for those.
6. illusion calls for those bracers, so those should be on the table.
7. Playing sorc with no AC ramp and taking +AC items is not exactly good. Those won't help anyways.
8, Int18 start is not great. Cut something and start from 19.
1) I went with SF ang GSF on Conjuration for the fog spells, mainly stinking fog.
I thought both Illusions and Necromancy lacks decent early spells, though I did go for Illusion for Weird.
Illusion + Necromany (GSF both) sounds viable than?

2) Because I played as a LN character. Might try the LE route or, as you say, stick with the Necromancer Staff.

3) I assume Vivi is the prerequisite for AT? Or maybe Slayer?

4) Please do mention what should I pick if I do go the pure LN Illusionist+Necromancer route, no AT.

5) Whew, two more feats, nice. What should I pick instead?

6) What braces?

7) OK

8) I really do not want to gimp anything further, although if I go for no rays, less DEX is viable, right?
Posted November 19, 2019
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LordSerion: 1) I went with SF ang GSF on Conjuration for the fog spells, mainly stinking fog.
I thought both Illusions and Necromancy lacks decent early spells, though I did go for Illusion for Weird.
Illusion + Necromany (GSF both) sounds viable than?

2) Because I played as a LN character. Might try the LE route or, as you say, stick with the Necromancer Staff.

3) I assume Vivi is the prerequisite for AT? Or maybe Slayer?

4) Please do mention what should I pick if I do go the pure LN Illusionist+Necromancer route, no AT.

5) Whew, two more feats, nice. What should I pick instead?

6) What braces?

7) OK

8) I really do not want to gimp anything further, although if I go for no rays, less DEX is viable, right?
1) You were correct in starting with conjuration foci. Conjuration spells are amazing throughout the game. I mean sage/arcane +2 to 1 school class feat. Necro is weird. It's not bad per se, but it's not good either. Best necro spells don't require a save and necro DC is so easy to ramp I'm not even sure it's worth to pick the foci. There is a necro rod from artisan and a dagger if you give up jaethal to the hunters. In the end I'd settle for conjuration start and illusion sometime in the early teens and would've just picked good necro spells with no save like animate dead and waves of exhaustion. You can pick up necro foci if you really want to, but I see no reason to.

3) Vivi is the best pick if going AT, but that doesn't mesh well with mostly pure sage, so I'd go pure sage and abandoned rays instead. There is no point in trying to do too many things at once. That being said I'm always a fan of taking 2 levels of vivi on most any caster for cognatogen, so my vote would be for sage18/V2. 2DC is better than a few spells. Just don't pick vivi till you have level9 spells.

You are either a DC sorc or a AT nuker. While the latter is objectively stronger top end, there is nothing wrong with a solid DC sorc, just need to abandon most of the damage in favor of utility and save-or die. That's the prime reason I'm advocating for illusion as that's actual save-or-die spells and some versatile shadow spells, which is handy for a sorc with limited spell selection.

4) From necro you need waves of exhaustion and animate dead. That's pretty much it. Undeath to death is good even without foci for someone that will have problems with affecting undead, although glitterdust and heightened grease never go out of fashion. From illusion you absolutely have to have mirror, improved invis, shadow invocations, phantasmal and weird. There are a few half-decent illusion control spells that won't hurt to have as well.

5) Perception and/or trickery focus won't hurt. Extend spell is also nice since you have the space. Extended improved invis and haste are handy, especially when you don't want to swap rods all day. I guess since you have so many open feats you can grab necro for good measure. Boosting undeath to death is not the worst thing ever(and that's what your spell specialization will likely go into once your shadow evocations cap out).

6) Golden Vision. On an island near pitax.

8) you have so many foci. You don't need 13 cha. Drop it to 10 and you won't even notice. I'd also swap dex and con as you don't need those rays(and 1AB won't do anything anyways). I'd abandon rays wholesale, but if you really love enervation for some reason...
Post edited November 19, 2019 by InEffect
Posted November 20, 2019
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LordSerion: 1) I went with SF ang GSF on Conjuration for the fog spells, mainly stinking fog.
I thought both Illusions and Necromancy lacks decent early spells, though I did go for Illusion for Weird.
Illusion + Necromany (GSF both) sounds viable than?

2) Because I played as a LN character. Might try the LE route or, as you say, stick with the Necromancer Staff.

3) I assume Vivi is the prerequisite for AT? Or maybe Slayer?

4) Please do mention what should I pick if I do go the pure LN Illusionist+Necromancer route, no AT.

5) Whew, two more feats, nice. What should I pick instead?

6) What braces?

7) OK

8) I really do not want to gimp anything further, although if I go for no rays, less DEX is viable, right?
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InEffect: 1) You were correct in starting with conjuration foci. Conjuration spells are amazing throughout the game. I mean sage/arcane +2 to 1 school class feat. Necro is weird. It's not bad per se, but it's not good either. Best necro spells don't require a save and necro DC is so easy to ramp I'm not even sure it's worth to pick the foci. There is a necro rod from artisan and a dagger if you give up jaethal to the hunters. In the end I'd settle for conjuration start and illusion sometime in the early teens and would've just picked good necro spells with no save like animate dead and waves of exhaustion. You can pick up necro foci if you really want to, but I see no reason to.

3) Vivi is the best pick if going AT, but that doesn't mesh well with mostly pure sage, so I'd go pure sage and abandoned rays instead. There is no point in trying to do too many things at once. That being said I'm always a fan of taking 2 levels of vivi on most any caster for cognatogen, so my vote would be for sage18/V2. 2DC is better than a few spells. Just don't pick vivi till you have level9 spells.

You are either a DC sorc or a AT nuker. While the latter is objectively stronger top end, there is nothing wrong with a solid DC sorc, just need to abandon most of the damage in favor of utility and save-or die. That's the prime reason I'm advocating for illusion as that's actual save-or-die spells and some versatile shadow spells, which is handy for a sorc with limited spell selection.

4) From necro you need waves of exhaustion and animate dead. That's pretty much it. Undeath to death is good even without foci for someone that will have problems with affecting undead, although glitterdust and heightened grease never go out of fashion. From illusion you absolutely have to have mirror, improved invis, shadow invocations, phantasmal and weird. There are a few half-decent illusion control spells that won't hurt to have as well.

5) Perception and/or trickery focus won't hurt. Extend spell is also nice since you have the space. Extended improved invis and haste are handy, especially when you don't want to swap rods all day. I guess since you have so many open feats you can grab necro for good measure. Boosting undeath to death is not the worst thing ever(and that's what your spell specialization will likely go into once your shadow evocations cap out).

6) Golden Vision. On an island near pitax.

8) you have so many foci. You don't need 13 cha. Drop it to 10 and you won't even notice. I'd also swap dex and con as you don't need those rays(and 1AB won't do anything anyways). I'd abandon rays wholesale, but if you really love enervation for some reason...
OK, thanks! DPS I have enough from Nok-Nok alone and there're the twins and Ekun too, so I guess DC controller would fit better. My party was DC sorc, Valerie as tank (TTS/Monk/Stalwart), Octavia for being the F-22 stealth trapfinder/cheeser (Wiz/Rogue/AT), Ekun/Twins for ranged DPS, Tristiam as healer and Nok-Nok as main DPS.


How does a pure Deliverer sound? Or a Deliverer/Fighter/Ranger?
Posted November 20, 2019
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LordSerion: OK, thanks! DPS I have enough from Nok-Nok alone and there're the twins and Ekun too, so I guess DC controller would fit better. My party was DC sorc, Valerie as tank (TTS/Monk/Stalwart), Octavia for being the F-22 stealth trapfinder/cheeser (Wiz/Rogue/AT), Ekun/Twins for ranged DPS, Tristiam as healer and Nok-Nok as main DPS.

How does a pure Deliverer sound? Or a Deliverer/Fighter/Ranger?
There is a good deliverer in the main thread. Although slayer is bugged af and is stacking study every time he sneaks, which is super dumb and broken.

As to party comp... I'd strongly suggest going bard valerie. You can grab a build for her from my last unfair run that I didn't bother to publish https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Us82fXjRu1DpsveJaOg9HTWn-0QkZjhI5dHvj0IwbSI/edit?usp=sharing
It's bit messy as it's just my notes for a run, but it should be a lot better.
Post edited November 20, 2019 by InEffect
Posted December 13, 2019
Hey InEffect, got a question for ya if you are around.

I noticed that you almost never use cornungon smash. I thought that was a common combo with dazzlingdisplay,intimidate ing presence, ect.

Is it not that good of a skill if I want to have things constantly feared?
Posted December 13, 2019
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proximity.Alert: Hey InEffect, got a question for ya if you are around.

I noticed that you almost never use cornungon smash. I thought that was a common combo with dazzlingdisplay,intimidate ing presence, ect.

Is it not that good of a skill if I want to have things constantly feared?
Well thug stuff is not exactly the best way of dealing with any given situation to begin with and constantly running after things gets old fast. That aside, cornugon requires 2 things that are hardly compatible with higher difficulties(and I am really cozy with unfair. It's been like 2000h since I touched anything lower, so I wouldn't exactly know how anything else plays): Evident problems with cornugon: a) it requires 2 hits to shatter. If most things don't die in 2 hits you have bigger problems that fearing won't fix b) requires PA on which is actively detrimental to damage unless you still hit on 2 with it. The second provision is so unlikely it only happens at the top end builds and by the very end of the game. So there you have it. That's where my general distaste of cornugon comes from. If I were to abuse fear I'd sooner use dreadful as that at least wouldn't come at a detriment to character performance. And regarding point 'a' it gets real bad as you need to hit em twice to shatter, so 1st hit applies shaken... and the things starts running. You AoO it and it's flat-footed... But it's 60ft away now. Yay. So basically cornugon has 0 synergy with shatter and shatter is a whole lot more useful. Only way you could kinda make it work is if you constantly juggled PA on and off to get free attacks on already shattered things with decent confidence that it'd die from AoO... which is a huge hassle.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by InEffect
Posted December 14, 2019
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proximity.Alert: Hey InEffect, got a question for ya if you are around.

I noticed that you almost never use cornungon smash. I thought that was a common combo with dazzlingdisplay,intimidate ing presence, ect.

Is it not that good of a skill if I want to have things constantly feared?
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InEffect: Well thug stuff is not exactly the best way of dealing with any given situation to begin with and constantly running after things gets old fast. That aside, cornugon requires 2 things that are hardly compatible with higher difficulties(and I am really cozy with unfair. It's been like 2000h since I touched anything lower, so I wouldn't exactly know how anything else plays): Evident problems with cornugon: a) it requires 2 hits to shatter. If most things don't die in 2 hits you have bigger problems that fearing won't fix b) requires PA on which is actively detrimental to damage unless you still hit on 2 with it. The second provision is so unlikely it only happens at the top end builds and by the very end of the game. So there you have it. That's where my general distaste of cornugon comes from. If I were to abuse fear I'd sooner use dreadful as that at least wouldn't come at a detriment to character performance. And regarding point 'a' it gets real bad as you need to hit em twice to shatter, so 1st hit applies shaken... and the things starts running. You AoO it and it's flat-footed... But it's 60ft away now. Yay. So basically cornugon has 0 synergy with shatter and shatter is a whole lot more useful. Only way you could kinda make it work is if you constantly juggled PA on and off to get free attacks on already shattered things with decent confidence that it'd die from AoO... which is a huge hassle.
Thanks for the answer mate. Learning the ropes of the game atm. Could do the main quest, but im actually having fun testing things in the endless dungeon. Out of curiosity, why did you stop making builds for this?
Posted December 14, 2019
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proximity.Alert: Thanks for the answer mate. Learning the ropes of the game atm. Could do the main quest, but im actually having fun testing things in the endless dungeon. Out of curiosity, why did you stop making builds for this?
Game is good. Company behind it not so much. Can't support it with my time in good faith.
Posted December 15, 2019
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InEffect: Riralt of Gevia for Nysir1991

Race: Human

Alignment: LG or LN(the former is better mechanically, the latter is close to what witchers are about)

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 15 > 16 @4
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 7
Cha: 14

Final Build: Monk(Scaled Fist) 1/ Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 12 / Bard(Archaeologist) 2 / Dragon Disciple 4

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion (Max),
Suggested secondary skills: Perception (Max), Trickery(Spare)

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Monk - Intimidating Prowess // Combat Reflexes // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Monk - Exotic Weapon: Estoc or Bastard Sword // Dodge
Lvl 6: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Outflank
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Estoc or Bastard Sword
Lvl 8: Alchemist - Combat trick > Crane Wing
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Dazzling Display
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Estoc or Bastard Sword
Lvl 12: Alchemist - Crippling Strike
Lvl 13: Bard - Crane Riposte
Lvl 14: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 15: Dragon Disciple - Cleave // Power Attack
Lvl 16: Bard - Opportunist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Cleaving Finish
Lvl 18: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 19: Dragon Disciple - Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 20: Dragon Disciple

Alchemist Spells: True strike, Shield, Restoration(Lesser), Stat spells, Haste, Displacement, Heroism, Echolocation, Greater invis

Bard Spells: Remove fear, Cure Light wounds, Vanish, Mirror Image, Sense Vitals, Glitterdust.

Gear: monk robes, Estoc(Blinding light) or Bastard Sword(Martyr), stat items, AC items, Monk robe

Bastard Swords look closer to what you are looking for, but martyrs blade is much-much worse than blinding light. Pick your poison.

DD is taken to simulate mutations and blood things from the books. Kinky stuff. Also bard will help to simulate signs somewhat. On a practical side: Mirror image is awesome. Also certain witchers always poke around ruins and stuff.

Has loads of AoO’s. Decent AC too. 9d6 sneak attack should help move things along.

Pretty much a less broken trip vivisectionist.
Last question for awhile InEffect, thanks for taking the time!

When I try this I dont have enough for everything here to work out..18/15/14/12/7/12 with the human bonus in dex. did I do something wrong? Race is human. Also I get that 18 > 22 means you put the extra skill points on level ups into that stat, but what does the @4 mean? Thanks!!
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This is my favourite topic
Community
Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
(769 posts)