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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: A more interesting question to ponder might be if it´s worth focusing on necromancy.
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InEffect: Not much of a question. The answer would be "no". Two best necro spells don't require DC's at all(being Animate Dead and Waves of Exhaustion). And duration Spells are the name of a game when it comes to control spells(well, damage spells are too, but that's more to druids/clerics/kineticits, not sorcs)
Meanwhile, conjuration has all the best control spells for every occasion. And can target whatever save you like. Pits for reflex, Clouds for fort and chains of light for will.
Would you chose the dc sage over arcane?
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: Would you chose the dc sage over arcane?
Sage is plain 2DC better due to +4 profane int staff from varnhold. Has some Skillpoints as a bonus too.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: Would you chose the dc sage over arcane?
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InEffect: Sage is plain 2DC better due to +4 profane int staff from varnhold. Has some Skillpoints as a bonus too.
but you miss the monk dip for ac
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: but you miss the monk dip for ac
Can't dip monk anyways on a DC stacking sorc. Need 2 levels of alchemist to grab cognatogen for another +2DC. Also AC on a sorc is largely a meme. Want AC on a sorc? Play dragon sorc and don't preoccupy yourself with DC stacking.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: but you miss the monk dip for ac
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InEffect: Can't dip monk anyways on a DC stacking sorc. Need 2 levels of alchemist to grab cognatogen for another +2DC. Also AC on a sorc is largely a meme. Want AC on a sorc? Play dragon sorc and don't preoccupy yourself with DC stacking.
I agree, I thought it was strange that you went down that route on your sylvan but you didnt build her with a dc focusing on the other hand
Posted June 08, 2019
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InEffect: Can't dip monk anyways on a DC stacking sorc. Need 2 levels of alchemist to grab cognatogen for another +2DC. Also AC on a sorc is largely a meme. Want AC on a sorc? Play dragon sorc and don't preoccupy yourself with DC stacking.
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andvaare: I agree, I thought it was strange that you went down that route on your sylvan but you didnt build her with a dc focusing on the other hand
DC stacking is a pretty all or nothing endeavor. Too many things are already missing from the puzzle for sylvan on that account.
Both are fine for what they do.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted June 08, 2019
That looks brilliant, thanks alot! This looks so much better than what i was pondering :)
Posted June 08, 2019
Have you thought about endless mode? How do you think the Varnhold party would do?
Posted June 08, 2019
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InEffect: mithral heavy armor, crane wing, TSS(if wing won't get fixed in EE), stalwart. CE, fighter extra dex to armor... It's pretty feasible to build a 50touch fighter, it's just gonna be a whole lot harder.
yea but it's too gear dependent/feat hog compared to normal "tanks" I guess..

Anyway i've been thinking about how to build a 4 freebooter(for move action bond) + 12 tactical leader(swift action tactics) + 4 levels of another class?(have no idea what). Mainly a semi/mediocre buff bot of some sort? but not as good as a pure bard I guess. Would you mind building this request? Have no idea how to go through and what the optimal build is for this. Thanks for everything btw!
Posted June 08, 2019
Sorry for the noob question but what's the main difference between Sage and Sylvan sorc? Aside from the Pet and I guess DC. Is Sage stronger overall? It sure sounds like it or rather an early vs late game trade?

Edit: This would literally solve all my problems. It's LE [asked you a week ago for an evil build, not sure if you remember] and it has lots of skill points allowing me to get lots of early game free xp[This wrecked me in my current run with only 7 int and just persuasion]. Just curious if it's made for higher difficulties but I assume yes since high DC.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by Xelran
Posted June 08, 2019
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Xelran: Sorry for the noob question but what's the main difference between Sage and Sylvan sorc? Aside from the Pet and I guess DC. Is Sage stronger overall? It sure sounds like it or rather an early vs late game trade?

Edit: This would literally solve all my problems. It's LE [asked you a week ago for an evil build, not sure if you remember] and it has lots of skill points allowing me to get lots of early game free xp[This wrecked me in my current run with only 7 int and just persuasion]. Just curious if it's made for higher difficulties but I assume yes since high DC.
You assume correctly. It's earlygame vs endgame silvan is nice for the foremer while sage is mainly the latter. Pet is a huge deal early on.
Posted June 08, 2019
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Xelran: Sorry for the noob question but what's the main difference between Sage and Sylvan sorc? Aside from the pet. Is sage stronger overall? It sure sounds like it or rather an early vs late game trade?
Let´s start by comparing Sylvan sorcerer and the Arcane sorcerer. Sylvan trades the +2 DC for a pet. The Sage Sorcerer is almost like the Arcane Sorcerer but uses INT instead of CHA. This is significant in that CHA is strictly a better stat than INT.
INT gives you skillpoints. CHA gives you +persuasion (for dazzle or scaled fist monk dip AC, not that a Sorcerer should dip into monk for AC).

Now you might be thinking that the Arcan sorcerer is better since it has +2DC and CHA as the main attribute. You would be right if it was not for the Varnhold DLC that added a +4 profane INT staff. This is significant because it allows an INT based sorcerer to reach a higher attribute bonus compared to a CHA based.

However, the latest dlc introduced new items and the slayer +dc from stealth so the new meta is not settled yet.

Also while a Sage Sorcerer reaches higher dc it also depends on which spells/monsters you´re focusing on. Since Conjuration which has access to the best control spell in the game, Stinking Cloud, targets fortitude (constitution) which also happens to be the lowest save in the later part of the game. For enchantments there is no such luck as it targets Will, which is much higher.

@InEffect please correct me if I´m wrong
Posted June 08, 2019
Thank you so much you two. I haven't played the Varnhold DLC yet but how does it work with the items. Do I need to pay attention to something to get the staff into the main game or is just finishing it enough?
Posted June 08, 2019
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andvaare: Let´s start by comparing Sylvan sorcerer and the Arcane sorcerer. Sylvan trades the +2 DC for a pet. The Sage Sorcerer is almost like the Arcane Sorcerer but uses INT instead of CHA. This is significant in that CHA is strictly a better stat than INT.
INT gives you skillpoints. CHA gives you +persuasion (for dazzle or scaled fist monk dip AC, not that a Sorcerer should dip into monk for AC).

Now you might be thinking that the Arcan sorcerer is better since it has +2DC and CHA as the main attribute. You would be right if it was not for the Varnhold DLC that added a +4 profane INT staff. This is significant because it allows an INT based sorcerer to reach a higher attribute bonus compared to a CHA based.

However, the latest dlc introduced new items and the slayer +dc from stealth so the new meta is not settled yet.

Also while a Sage Sorcerer reaches higher dc it also depends on which spells/monsters you´re focusing on. Since Conjuration which has access to the best control spell in the game, Stinking Cloud, targets fortitude (constitution) which also happens to be the lowest save in the later part of the game. For enchantments there is no such luck as it targets Will, which is much higher.

@InEffect please correct me if I´m wrong
pretty much that, except for conjuration spells. They happily target all 3 saves. Pits and grease for reflex, Cloud for fort and chains of light for will. No other school has anything even close to that.

Before varnhold Arcane gnome illusionist sorc was the thing to do.
Post edited June 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted June 08, 2019
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Xelran: Thank you so much you two. I haven't played the Varnhold DLC yet but how does it work with the items. Do I need to pay attention to something to get the staff into the main game or is just finishing it enough?
You get access to it later in the main campaign if you do the DLC.
@InEffect This is off topic but what do you think about D&D 5 (now that BG3) has been annonouced by Sven Studios
Post edited June 08, 2019 by andvaare
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This is my favourite topic
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
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