InEffect: Trip Alch variant for ottffss1

Race: Tiefling(Motherless)

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 17 > 18 @20
Cha: 7

Final Build: Monk(Sensei) 1/ Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 12 / Bard(Archaeologist) 2 / Dragon Disciple 4

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion (Max),
Suggested secondary skills: Perception (Max), Trickery(Spare)

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Combat Expertise(+2 int item) // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Trip // Combat Trick > Outflank
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing // Feral Wings*
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Sword Saint - Dazzling Display // Chosen Weapon: Fauchard
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Greater Trip
Lvl 12: Alchemist - Crippling Strike
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lvl 14: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 15: Bard - Fury’s Fall
Lvl 16: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 17: Dragon Disciple - Combat Reflexes** // Intimidating Prowess**
Lvl 18: Bard - Opportunist
Lvl 19: Dragon Disciple - Crane Riposte
Lvl 20: Dragon Disciple
*can be skipped in favor of Combat Reflexes. You decide. I prefer better AC ramp, as evident.
**can take power attack from bloodline and dreadful carnage here, if you really want to but I wouldn't. We are too strained already.

Alchemist Spells: True strike, Shield, Restoration(Lesser), Stat spells, Haste, Displacement, Heroism, Echolocation, Greater invis,
Magus Spells: True Strike
Bard Spells: Remove fear, Cure Light wounds, Vanish, Mirror Image, Sense Vitals, Glitterdust.

Gear: monk robes, fauchard(Mastery), stat items, cloak of winter wolf, opportunist’s boots

A variation of trip vivisectionist. Lots of AB, lots of bites good damage, loads of AoO’s and so on.

Can Dazzle himself, but prefers not to.
=======================

Likely won't be able to reply or fulfill any requests for a few days.

ottffss1: Thanks a bunch! lovely! Just a question what is the concrete benefit of going vivisectionist up to 12 levels compared to an earlier breakpoint like say level 8 - which will be probably more realistic in game anyways with the leveling. Also after reaching character level 11 or so, so midgame can one switch to going 12 bard, 13 dd etc (the last 5 levels in the leveling breakdown) and delay the final vivesectionist levels up to until the very end?

P-Stache: Hey!

How would you build around dual wielding bastard swords? I saw that the feat Effortless dual wielding was recently added and this sounds like a really cool character concept.

I was wishing this could be handled with maybe one or two classes, but I don't mind Min-Max if it really adds something notable to the build. I am willing to dump stats.

I have all the DLC. I was thinking that the build would be focusing on dealing damage rather than tanking. Lastly how horribly gimped I would be with such build as a damage dealer compared to, say, 2h fighter archetype?

Thank you!!

Edit: If other heavy one handed blades are clearly a superior choice for dual wielding compared to bastard swords I wouldn't mind changing them.

Krowseph: Hello!

I feel like I have asked you for enough help but you have been such a great resource of knowledge when it comes to this things.

I would like help building an arcane crowd control / support for Hard mode. I would like to avoid Bard if possible and stick to wizards / sorceror...not sure if that is the best choice, just let me know.

I am confused as if my build should be 1 point in Undead or Serpentine Sorc (for additional control possibilities) and then the rest thassilonian lust or Sloth (Conjuration best CC?) or Pride? Just a regular specialist wizard? Is it better to just go Arcane/Sage Sorc for the additional +2 DC at level 15?

I'm also assuming gnome since they get a bonus to illusion magic? I think Will saves would be the easiest to beat in hard mode but I am not quite sure.

Any ideas?

In short. Can you please help build a CC / Support oriented Arcane build for hard mode that can as effectively as possible beat the higher DCs of enemies?

Regards,

Justin

volklore: Also, Illusion is a bit of a trap school. Yes shadow evocation and Weird are great, but they also come pretty late in the game. Two entirely dead spell levels for DC casters (2 and 3) and spells that have double saves. Sure some of them are save or die effects, but if you are building a CC caster to play in a party, let your party members do the killing while you disable the whole battlefield.
Conjuration is the best school for CC, as it gets great spell progression (Grease>glitterdust, create pit> stinking cloud) and those spells stay relevant almost all game long with Heighten spell metamagic. On top of that you get access to summoning feats if you so wish. Ultimately you can take spell focus in a second school, but conjuration is the best early focus for CC.
If you play a CHA archetype you can also get into dazzling display to shake enemies and reduce their saving rolls, however you would rather have a party member do it for better action economy.

Krowseph: Ok, so pure sage is best? I’m assuming this is better then arcane simply because of the new profane gear? Focus on conjuration? Needed items are the profane staff, anything +int, and Cloak of Sold Souls? Any dip in alchemist for mutagen or not worth it?

Krowseph: Ok, so the main difference between sage and arcane is the DC loss due to the profane staff?

InEffect: Fighter9/Vivisectionist 3/Stalwart1/monk1/Archaeologist2/DD4 probably.
13 starting dex, with +2 item will be able to pick twf, and then more as your items progress. Will ahve enough for 19 dex with +6 item which is not too far through the game. Mithral full plate, crane style and stalwart will help with the AC ramp and touch AC won't be too horrible.
Compared to 2HF it will have better touch AC and comparable damage output. Compared to what can be done with 2h non-fighters... eh. It's hard to compete with unarmored archetypes in general and with no spell ramp in particular
InEffect: Don't bother with extra affected targets. The DC loss is never worth it. Sage sorc will always be a better choice for CC(because of that evil profane staff). Ghosts in endgame can always be blasted with stormbolts if you have to rely on your mage for it.
If you want those for RP it doesn't matter either as your AC will never be good enough to weight in one or the other direction.