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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
(769 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 04, 2019
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RoufusQuaint: Hello inEffect,

I've been a big fan of your builds. I just finished a run in BG2:ToB and I'm just wondering if you could make a few tweaks on your "What About Dragons" Build. I want to do a run in Kingmaker as Abazigal, a Blue Dragon that can turn into a humaniod. (was about to post a link regarding him but was unable to)

Is it possible to make that build pure melee? I would appreciate a response. Thanks!
You'll have to take at least some fire spells like burning arc... otherwise it's ok, I guess. You'll have to grab chain lightning at 6 and stormbolts at 8... it's the latter that is really painful. You really-really don't want to drop any of those spells as that's a lot of AC. Well if you have to it's gonna be frightful aspect for sure.

Pure melee is not exactly possible on a sorc due to how thw whole thing works. You can go monk1/Sorc5/DD4/EK10 but It won't fare well in melee on unfair and maybe even on hard. It also will get dragonforms 1 level later.
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Embig: Hello again,

I asked on the other thread about the viability of the Mad Doge build on Hard, appreciate your answer. Do you have any suggestion for a melee reach build that would fare well on hard?
M1/SS1/Vivisectionist12/Archaeologist2/DD4 trip/bite build with fauchard(Mastery) is how everyone does it.
Post edited May 04, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 04, 2019
I see. Thank you for the insight. I think I'll just go with the original build and roleplay as Firkraag. Thanks again!
Posted May 04, 2019
Hello!

I was thinking about trying this build for thundercaller on hard mode. Can you please provide your insight? I don't really want to min/max and want to follow a theme of the brass dragon heritage allowing the bard the use of lightning type abilities (thundercaller).

Magus 2/DD 4/Thundercaller 12. (If I go to 20 I would probably just add 2 more DD levels) Are the magus levels worth going for the extra spell attack?

I feel this allows to to create a decent ranged damage dealer (composite long bow) while also making using of the thundercaller's abilities. Starting States Str: 14 Dex: 18 -> 22 Con: 10 Int: 10 Wis: 10 :Charisma: 18

Thank you!
Post edited May 04, 2019 by Krowseph
Posted May 04, 2019
Thundercaller/hard/No min-max for Krowseph

Race: Aasimar(Angelkin)

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 19 > 24
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

Final Build: Monk(Scald Fist) 1/Bard(Thundercaller) 15/Dragon Disciple 4

Main skills: Mobility 3, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Persuasion (max)
Suggested secondary skills: Athletics(at least some), UMD(same here), Lore(Nature) 1

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Monk - Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff // Dodge
Lvl 2: Bard
Lvl 3: Bard - Crane Style // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 4: Bard
Lvl 5: Bard - Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 6: Bard
Lvl 7: Bard - Outflank // Combat Trick> Crane Wing
Lvl 8: Bard
Lvl 9: Dragon Disciple - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 10: Dragon Disciple - Power Attack
Lvl 11: Dragon Disciple - Wings
Lvl 12: Dragon Disciple
Lvl 13: Bard - Crane Riposte
Lvl 14: Bard
Lvl 15: Bard - Cleave // Combat Trick > Cleaving Finish
Lvl 16: Bard
Lvl 17: Bard - Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 18: Bard
Lvl 19: Bard - Combat Reflexes* // Skill Focus: Persuasion
Lvl 20: Bard
*Or whatever else. You don’t really need that with opportunist’s boots.

Spells:
Lvl 1: Cure Light Wounds, Grease, Vanish, Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart
Lvl 2: Mirror Image, Heroism, Sense Vitals, Cure Moderate Wounds, Invisibility, Glitterdust
Lvl 3: Good Hope, Displacement, Haste, Cure Serious Wounds, Delay Poison(Communal)
Lvl 4: Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Echolocation Cure Critical Wounds, Break Enchantment
Lvl 5: Heroism(Greater), Cure Light Wounds(Mass), Dispel Magic(Greater), Ki Shout
Lvl 6: Brilliant Inspiration, Shout(Greater), Cure Moderate Wounds(Mass), Summon Monster VI

Gear: LG monk Robes, AC items, Stat items, Ring of circumstances, Absolver cloak, Opportunist’s boots

Imo best way you can do it. I tried making Fill cha dex version that would tank and spam the Thunder call, but in practice best DC you can reach is 31. And it’s reflex, so… not a chance it’d work well on hard. If you treat is as something you can throw at swarms and some such it’s decent though. You still get bard inspiration and all that.

I’d still say it’s the best bard archetype, but it assumes you are going ranged. In melee - not so much.

Picked up DD for extra str and armor.

Opted for staff as 2h still works with crane wing as of now. 1,5 str damage doesn’t hurt either. Also flurry is nice.

Wants jubilost for the shield

Legendary proportions are nice to have as well.

Stat spread could be better with a bit more min/max but it’s not terrible.

Doesn’t have much trouble reaching 65AC to tank Hard. Should do fine.

Power attack is there for dreadful carnage. It’s kidna usable on something really fat if you shatter it first, but generally it’s fiddly and not worth the hassle.

So yeah. My verdict is best melee thundercaller option is not really being a thundercaller. I kept as much of it in as I could, though.
Post edited May 04, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 04, 2019
I don’t want to be too gimped, and I edited my previous post. Sorry you didn’t see it. If you recommend ranged, would Magus 2/DD 4/Thundercaller 12 be ok? (If I go to 20 I would probably just add 2 more DD levels) Are the magus levels worth going for the extra spell attack?
Posted May 04, 2019
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Krowseph: I don’t want to be too gimped, and I edited my previous post. Sorry you didn’t see it. If you recommend ranged, would Magus 2/DD 4/Thundercaller 12 be ok? (If I go to 20 I would probably just add 2 more DD levels) Are the magus levels worth going for the extra spell attack?
TC really wants to be pure or almost pure class. That's kinda the reason to sit in range and just spam thunder calls. just load every level with extra performance and that's it. Pretty much a worse grenadier, but with more party buffs. I know it's not what you are looking for, but it's how thundercaller does. Generally, thundercaller is something you are ok swapping linzy for a merc with. Not so much for a MC that is supposed to be a driving factor in any combat.
Post edited May 04, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 05, 2019
I hate waste, hate being locked out of toys by spontaneous casters, and like low-rest pew-pew, so i've been trying to figure out how to put together A Vivi1/Scroll Savant 10/Arcane Trickster 9. That's probably trading down on capstones mechanically, but i like the class fantasy nonetheless.

A human (because obviously nowhere near enough feats to go around without the normal bonus wizard ones), conjuration school (opposing divination and necromancy, the latter may have been a mistake) and Point blank/precise shot/accomplished sneak attacker are proving to be enough to get me to the Savant capstone without pulling my hair out (though you'd probably hate it :p), but now i'm at a bit of a loss as to what might be least painful from here.

I suppose it's choosing between higher DC on the billions of Evocation scrolls+specialisation for more rays OR conjuration DCs OR shattering so the rays i have actually keep hitting?
Posted May 05, 2019
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Suriag: I hate waste, hate being locked out of toys by spontaneous casters, and like low-rest pew-pew, so i've been trying to figure out how to put together A Vivi1/Scroll Savant 10/Arcane Trickster 9. That's probably trading down on capstones mechanically, but i like the class fantasy nonetheless.

A human (because obviously nowhere near enough feats to go around without the normal bonus wizard ones), conjuration school (opposing divination and necromancy, the latter may have been a mistake) and Point blank/precise shot/accomplished sneak attacker are proving to be enough to get me to the Savant capstone without pulling my hair out (though you'd probably hate it :p), but now i'm at a bit of a loss as to what might be least painful from here.

I suppose it's choosing between higher DC on the billions of Evocation scrolls+specialisation for more rays OR conjuration DCs OR shattering so the rays i have actually keep hitting?
On higher difficulties shatter is just what you always do. Even if you have no Cha or Persuasion. Someone else can dazzle for you. on challenging it's not that much of a must, but still it's optimal because it's so good.

Dropping divination is really bad. You instantly lose 5d6 damage from sense vitals. Drop enchantment instead. You will lose Greater heroism, but local bard can always fix it for you. Necro drop is mostly fine. No animate dead and no waves of exhaustion is a bit painful, but other schools are more valuable.

I'd also consider dropping 1 level of AT for a scaled fist at 19 to grab crane style+wing as that can boost your AC nicely and by that time you actually have all the buffs to get good touch AC. And maybe even good enough regular AC to not be hit. It's not like you gain much from that AT level anyways. Will cost just 1AB total for +7touch AC+cha mod+5from robes. And you kinda want 1focus evo+Spell specialization to have a better curve on rays anyway. That way it won't be wasted at the end.
Post edited May 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 06, 2019
Roger! Hate Linzi too, so eating one double-slot vitals for hard stuff will cost me less slots than heroism would, but i do see that you are objectively correct. Sirocco with that specialisation will just have to do its best to replace Waves of Exhaustion.

I've just bumped it up to hard and got a rude shock, i see why you have Dazzle everywhere now! And also... perhaps the upside of my being stubborn about bards is that I could zip back through Act 1 to do the same thing with the Enchanter debuff for later. Unless Linzi grows on me.

Not... quite sure why i got stuck on conjuration DCs there, that was a silly digression because I suddenly wanted to do everything when already spread too thin. Bah!

Ok! A bit more focused now, you've probably saved me hours of vacillating. Thank you :)
Posted May 06, 2019
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Suriag: Roger! Hate Linzi too, so eating one double-slot vitals for hard stuff will cost me less slots than heroism would, but i do see that you are objectively correct. Sirocco with that specialisation will just have to do its best to replace Waves of Exhaustion.

I've just bumped it up to hard and got a rude shock, i see why you have Dazzle everywhere now! And also... perhaps the upside of my being stubborn about bards is that I could zip back through Act 1 to do the same thing with the Enchanter debuff for later. Unless Linzi grows on me.

Not... quite sure why i got stuck on conjuration DCs there, that was a silly digression because I suddenly wanted to do everything when already spread too thin. Bah!

Ok! A bit more focused now, you've probably saved me hours of vacillating. Thank you :)
You can fit in everything relatively fast. Shatter will come late with your ab anyways, so don't worry about it early. Grab Precise/point blank, 2 cojuration and 1evo+spell specialization then ray focus/dazzle/shatter and you are pretty much set.
There is a case to be made to start the game with evo focus and spell specialization for better magic missile as that doesn't miss.
Only metamagic feat you'll need is heighten,
Post edited May 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 07, 2019
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InEffect: Tank+Pet for petey488

Race: Aasimar(Lawbringer)

Alignment: LG
Deity: Erastil
Domains*: Community, Animal
*In this order, It’ll be important some day.
Pet: Leopard

Stats:
Str: 17 > 22
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 18
Cha: 8

Final Build: Monk(Traditional) 1/Cleric(Ecclesitheurge) 16/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 3

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion Max, Perception Max
Suggested secondary skills: Whatever. Religion is thematic, I guess.

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Monk - Crane Style // Dodge
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Cleric - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Cleric
Lvl 5: Cleric - Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Lvl 6: Cleric
Lvl 7: Cleric - Boon Companion
Lvl 8: Cleric
Lvl 9: Cleric - Outflank
Lvl 10: Cleric
Lvl 11: Cleric - Wings
Lvl 12: Cleric
Lvl 13: Cleric - Dazzling Display
Lvl 14: Cleric
Lvl 15: Cleric - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 16: Cleric
Lvl 17: Cleric - Crane Wing*
Lvl 18: Alchemist - Feral Mutagen
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Crane Riposte*
Lvl 20: Cleric
*They work with 2h as of now. If you don’t want to abuse the game take Persuasive and intimidating prowess here.

Important Cleric Spells:
Lvl 1: Divine Favor, Remove Fear, Unbreakable heart
Lvl 2: Restoration(Lesser), Find Traps, Protection from Alignment(Communal)
Lvl 3: Animate Dead, Resist Energy(Communal), Delay Poison(Communal)
Lvl 4: Divine Power, Freedom Of Movement, Death Ward, Restoration
Lvl 5: Geniekind, Breath of Life, Break Enchantment
Lvl 6: Eaglesoul, Blade Barrier
Lvl 7: Restoration(Greater), Resurrection, Bestow Grace of the Champion, Summon Monster VII
Lvl 8: Frightful Aspect, Legendary Proportions, Mind Blank, Angelic Aspect(Greater)

Alchemist spells: Shield, True Strike.

Gear: Quarterstaff(preferably, Ruin), LG monk robes, Armor Bracers, +Stat Belt, +Stat hat, Opportunist’s boots.
Luxuries: Bokken elixir, Ring Of circumstances, Absolver Cloak, Dreamer ring, Gyronna amulet

Not where I thought I’ll land for sure. Oh well.

About Spells. Try to keep equal number of 1m/lvl spells. Same with 1r/lvl. The latter should be a lot more plentiful. Generally 1 copy of 1m/r spells is enough. I usually run at least 2-3 copies of 1r spells.

Technically has Alchemist for self-casted shields. 1m is not terribly long but extend rod will help. Once you get jubilost you can just use his shield through infusion. Once you get alchemist 3 it won’t be so painful as 6m(with extend rod) is not so bad.

First decent staff is sold by an old witch in the swamp. It’ll serve you well until you roll something better from masters. Ruin is your wet dream, but it’s high-tier craft, so you might not be so lucky. And you need your master level high.

Does get to 70AC buffed, so I guess tanking part is covered. Also doesn’t hit like a wet noodle. When buffing cast Frightful aspect first and then Legendary or your size bonus will be scuffed.

Turns on fighting defensively from level 1 and rolls that way all game.

Kept the pet competitive till the last hours. And the pet start to fall off by then anyways. Leopard is taken because the size is not too annoying to play with and the pet is ok-ish.

Mutagen is 10m for most of the game, but if you think of it so are your buffs. There is just no other class that’d give us tempo 2d6 damage, and a 4str+2AC buff on demand.

Flurry solves the lost attack issue admirably.

Has shatter and is ok-ish at dazzle, but as all frontliners does prefer that someone else would dazzle most of the time.

Skipped level 9 Cleric spells in exchange for finer things in life. Tempo AC and damage was more important, I believe. Sure, it's not as noticeable late-game, but there is a matter of getting there first.

Works better as a level 20 so either small party or exploiting persuasion for solo exp is advised. Still, gets everything he really needs by 17, so that's good.
I do like this build that you built for Petey...is there anyway you can do a tank w/ a pet build with something that uses heavy armor or would you lose too much by not having monk? Crusader or something of the like? I also play hard mode.
Posted May 07, 2019
Hi ineffect!

can you please do something creative with this one that would be great:

I know I want a base of 2 seinsei/ 2 archeologist (song stacks in uses/day I think even coming from two separate classes) monk 2 levels and archeologist 2 levels is a no brainer. basically a party leader archetype. going further into seinsei a bit may be an option but I think there is not need beyong like 8 levels of it or so? or even less?

after that open to anything useful and creative. of course this going the direction of a 1.)tank/ secondary dps + party utility

given high wisdom and monk weapons ecclesitheurge as the third class up to 16 levels may be an option - but can it tank on hard+? or be an offtank by default? but it does grant an extra pet.

lots of dipping + cheese allowed. but lawful alignment restriction based on monk because I do not want to go through rp alignment shifts and just that is the only restriction.

thanks a bunch and excited to see what you come up with - I know you don't care that much for all those rogue dips so I am particularly interested how you solve dps here without going the rogue sneak attack route.
Posted May 07, 2019
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Krowseph: I do like this build that you built for Petey...is there anyway you can do a tank w/ a pet build with something that uses heavy armor or would you lose too much by not having monk? Crusader or something of the like? I also play hard mode.
Depends on the difficulty. For normal/challenging - sure. For hard/unfair - not a chance. And AC ramp will be a lot slower no matter what.
Post edited May 07, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 08, 2019
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Krowseph: I do like this build that you built for Petey...is there anyway you can do a tank w/ a pet build with something that uses heavy armor or would you lose too much by not having monk? Crusader or something of the like? I also play hard mode.
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InEffect: Depends on the difficulty. For normal/challenging - sure. For hard/unfair - not a chance. And AC ramp will be a lot slower no matter what.
Hmm, I really like the concept, just can’t stand the look of robes.
Posted May 08, 2019
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Krowseph: Hmm, I really like the concept, just can’t stand the look of robes.
Protector robes look rather nice actually.
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This is my favourite topic
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(769 posts)(769 posts)
(769 posts)