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Pathfinder: KingmakerBuild/Mechanics discussion thread(216 posts)(216 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 06, 2019
Made this so we don't flood the build topics too much. I also promise to answer the questions here to the best of my ability should they pop up.

If you reference a build it's highly advised to leave a direct link to it.

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guess I'll start.
so did they fix ecc domain spells that should go into regular slots as a class feature?
Post edited March 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted March 06, 2019
Reposting over here.

Yeah, they have it fixed. Not that it makes a big difference for Tristian. He picked Good as his primary domain and all of those spells are on the regular Cleric spell list as it is.
Posted March 06, 2019
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Roahin: Reposting over here.

Yeah, they have it fixed. Not that it makes a big difference for Tristian. He picked Good as his primary domain and all of those spells are on the regular Cleric spell list as it is.
good to know. Idk. Tristian is a tad weird tbh. on one hand he is ok, on the other I just run True Follower of Urgathoa Jaethal instead as of late and I feel it works out better for me.

Edit. Technically harrim can wear mithral heavy with 5% asf and buff it up with cleric spell while using something with reach and shield spell from sorc. that won't make him into a tank but at least something will miss him occasionally.
Post edited March 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted March 06, 2019
The Tristian thing is a bit more poignant for me because of a recent issue with a main character build I was trying (and failing) at.

I'm a huge fan of Asmodeus and since Tieflings were released, I'd been wanting to do something with him. The problem is that a Devil-Spawn Tiefling is so goddamn backwards. The +2 Constitution and +2 Wisdom seem like they'd lend themselves to a martial Cleric like a Crusader pretty well. But the fact that they had that huge glaring caveat "If you take a Sorcerer or Eldritch Scion level, you bypass the -2 Charisma penalty!" on them weighed on me to the point where I couldn't NOT take a level. I mean, no other Tiefling bloodline includes a way to offset their racial penalty. Yet, neither Sorcerer nor Eldritch Scion particularly benefits from Constitution or Wisdom though. And neither one are good multiclassers with a martial Cleric.

So, fine. I went straight Sorcerer. Asmodeus is a fire God, and me being a Lawful Evil Devil-Spawn that spams fire everywhere is the next best thing to actually being a Cleric to him. But I noticed pretty quickly that his spells were running out rapidly. By around level 10, I'd noticed that I'd be on empty and spamming cantrip rays without full-clearing a map while Tristian, despite lacking my masculine 5th level spells, had far out-damaged me and was still spamming more spells with plenty yet in reserve. About the time I was halfway through Varnhold Vanishing, I got frustrated and deleted the character. See, I couldn't even imitate Tristian and go Theurge myself. The Devil-Spawn Sorcerer thing only works with classic Sorcerers, not Empyreal ones.

So, having had Tristian's MT build actively playing alongside a pure damage spamming Sorcerer and realizing that the MT completely and thoroughly blew it out of the water, colored my opinions strongly.
Posted March 06, 2019
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Roahin: The Tristian thing is a bit more poignant for me because of a recent issue with a main character build I was trying (and failing) at.

I'm a huge fan of Asmodeus and since Tieflings were released, I'd been wanting to do something with him. The problem is that a Devil-Spawn Tiefling is so goddamn backwards. The +2 Constitution and +2 Wisdom seem like they'd lend themselves to a martial Cleric like a Crusader pretty well. But the fact that they had that huge glaring caveat "If you take a Sorcerer or Eldritch Scion level, you bypass the -2 Charisma penalty!" on them weighed on me to the point where I couldn't NOT take a level. I mean, no other Tiefling bloodline includes a way to offset their racial penalty. Yet, neither Sorcerer nor Eldritch Scion particularly benefits from Constitution or Wisdom though. And neither one are good multiclassers with a martial Cleric.

So, fine. I went straight Sorcerer. Asmodeus is a fire God, and me being a Lawful Evil Devil-Spawn that spams fire everywhere is the next best thing to actually being a Cleric to him. But I noticed pretty quickly that his spells were running out rapidly. By around level 10, I'd noticed that I'd be on empty and spamming cantrip rays without full-clearing a map while Tristian, despite lacking my masculine 5th level spells, had far out-damaged me and was still spamming more spells with plenty yet in reserve. About the time I was halfway through Varnhold Vanishing, I got frustrated and deleted the character. See, I couldn't even imitate Tristian and go Theurge myself. The Devil-Spawn Sorcerer thing only works with classic Sorcerers, not Empyreal ones.

So, having had Tristian's MT build actively playing alongside a pure damage spamming Sorcerer and realizing that the MT completely and thoroughly blew it out of the water, colored my opinions strongly.
think you can do draconic sorc(with DD levels) with the devil-spawn, no? get like 14 cha(12 with a malus) to cast buffs and stuff(+items), Take a traditional monk level to make use of wis... might be bit rough at the start, but it should work ok-ish, no? buff up and use beast/dragon forms to fight. And being MAD won;t hurt you as bad cause you don't care too much about the casting stat

but I do agree most thiefling subs are really backwards. And they don't get a racial either.
Post edited March 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted March 06, 2019
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InEffect: think you can do draconic sorc(with DD levels) with the devil-spawn, no? get like 14 cha(12 with a malus) to cast buffs and stuff(+items), Take a traditional monk level to make use of wis... might be bit rough at the start, but it should work ok-ish, no? buff up and use beast/dragon forms to fight. And being MAD won;t hurt you as bad cause you don't care too much about the casting stat

but I do agree most thiefling subs are really backwards. And they don't get a racial either.
The Devil-Spawn has to take the Infernal Bloodline to avoid the Charisma penalty, so Dragon Disciple is right out. And besides, a Wisdom/Constitution/Charisma race is just godawful for a buffed physical damage build. It's a shame too, like I said, I really like Asmodeus and Devil-Spawn. Meanwhile, the CE equivalent Demon-Spawn get much more attractive +2 Strength/Charisma with an irrelevant -2 Intelligence with the conjoining Abyssal Bloodline giving all those Transformation and Strength-buffing abilities.
Posted March 06, 2019
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Roahin: The Devil-Spawn has to take the Infernal Bloodline to avoid the Charisma penalty, so Dragon Disciple is right out. And besides, a Wisdom/Constitution/Charisma race is just godawful for a buffed physical damage build. It's a shame too, like I said, I really like Asmodeus and Devil-Spawn. Meanwhile, the CE equivalent Demon-Spawn get much more attractive +2 Strength/Charisma with an irrelevant -2 Intelligence with the conjoining Abyssal Bloodline giving all those Transformation and Strength-buffing abilities.
oh right. I forgot they patched out being able to take DD on non-draconic sorcs. well then this sub is just as awful as the next 50% of tiefling subs.
Post edited March 06, 2019 by InEffect
Posted March 07, 2019
So, having had Tristian's MT build actively playing alongside a pure damage spamming Sorcerer and realizing that the MT completely and thoroughly blew it out of the water, colored my opinions strongly.

It's not that I don't believe you, but it does bear some explanation I think. How did a dedicated sorcerer fire blaster get blown out of the water as far as doing his main thing by someone 3 caster levels behind with lower DCs?
Posted March 08, 2019
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ithildur: So, having had Tristian's MT build actively playing alongside a pure damage spamming Sorcerer and realizing that the MT completely and thoroughly blew it out of the water, colored my opinions strongly.

It's not that I don't believe you, but it does bear some explanation I think. How did a dedicated sorcerer fire blaster get blown out of the water as far as doing his main thing by someone 3 caster levels behind with lower DCs?
it's possible just due to a sheer amount of casts. MT has like 20 more spell slots so if you fill em with low maintenance damage spells you will likely surpass dedicated caster as you will go for almost twice as long as he would. What said dedicated caster does better is going nova as his DC's are higher and his spells better.

It's just we have different play-styles with Roahin and the difference of opinion stems from there. I like low maintenance clearing for trash mobs and caster(s) going nova on hard enemies/encounters so I naturally lean towards gishes and the likes, He seems to prefer getting gradual benefits from his casters through steady resource expenditure. Both have merits and end up in the same position in the end.

A case in point: He likes taking a MT with him while I'd take my Jaethal in a cler build. The former has a lot of casts and the latter has utility and physical damage when she has nothing to do.
Post edited March 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted March 08, 2019
Ok, he's talking outlasting the sorcerer then with more spellslots, which is obviously in an MT's favor. That's one way to do it, sure, it's nice to be able to cast all day long.

Like you I tend to prefer maximum nova potential (though I don't mix/max or optimize nearly as hard) and enjoy playing gishes that can go nova while also being decent at mook fights. The trash fights after a certain point just aren't worth wasting a lot of spellslots on if you have decent hitters in the group. Let them do most of the gruntwork with some buffs, occasional CC; save the really nasty nova stuff to ensure tough boss fights/nasty surprises are going to be a win.
I understand that a lot of players don't like to have casters stand around plinking crossbows during the mook fights. But I'm a bit old school, with an appreciation for the days when low level wizards got to cast literally ONE or TWO spells for the entire day (2e/BG1), and had to come up with other ingenious ways to be useful other than tossing darts. It also fits the stereotype, some variation of 'let the peons do the dirty work; I'm here when you need REAL power'. :)
Post edited March 08, 2019 by ithildur
Posted March 08, 2019
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ithildur: Ok, he's talking outlasting the sorcerer then with more spellslots, which is obviously in an MT's favor. That's one way to do it, sure, it's nice to be able to cast all day long.

Like you I tend to prefer maximum nova potential (though I don't mix/max or optimize nearly as hard) and enjoy playing gishes that can go nova while also being decent at mook fights. The trash fights after a certain point just aren't worth wasting a lot of spellslots on if you have decent hitters in the group. Let them do most of the gruntwork with some buffs, occasional CC; save the really nasty nova stuff to ensure tough boss fights/nasty surprises are going to be a win.
I understand that a lot of players don't like to have casters stand around plinking crossbows during the mook fights. But I'm a bit old school, with an appreciation for the days when low level wizards got to cast literally ONE or TWO spells for the entire day (2e/BG1), and had to come up with other ingenious ways to be useful other than tossing darts. It also fits the stereotype, some variation of 'let the peons do the dirty work; I'm here when you need REAL power'. :)
in this one you can use wands and scrolls if you so please during downtime. They are cheap(at least cheap to sell) and plentiful and it's better than poking them with a crossbow for pure caster. I generally don't do it just for the sole reason of micro slowing the game down so I like my casters having some decent martial power for that exact reason and it's not like it takes a lot of effort to have it in PF apart from all-in builds like arcane sorc.
Post edited March 08, 2019 by InEffect
Posted June 13, 2019
If i were to respec Kanerah to the same class, dark elementalist with the same stats but starting from level 1, what would be the best build for her?
Posted June 13, 2019
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CookieJamZZ: If i were to respec Kanerah to the same class, dark elementalist with the same stats but starting from level 1, what would be the best build for her?
Not much different, except she has wild talent wasted. I deleted my old saves after EE for a fresh run, so I can tell you exactly what I'd change once I get there.
Posted June 13, 2019
Just starting out the game and wanted to go with a crit Sword Saint. Now I've read here and there that Sword Saint can get pretty high AC with Int/Dex and mad criticals, but I'm just not far enough into the mechanics to get it working by myself and the few infos to go on. A fair amount of Int also seems to make sense to me as it'd allow for lots of skills for RP/story purposes.

Didn't see anything matching that in the builds provided so far. Anyone able to help? Thanks in advance guys.
Posted June 13, 2019
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nemy123: Just starting out the game and wanted to go with a crit Sword Saint. Now I've read here and there that Sword Saint can get pretty high AC with Int/Dex and mad criticals, but I'm just not far enough into the mechanics to get it working by myself and the few infos to go on. A fair amount of Int also seems to make sense to me as it'd allow for lots of skills for RP/story purposes.

Didn't see anything matching that in the builds provided so far. Anyone able to help? Thanks in advance guys.
Dex saint is fine. Much lower top potential though. Only thing de saint really has going for him is a bit easier earlygame, but that's it. Otherwise, str saint has more damage, more feats to throw around and so on. Only plausible dex saint that would do any good at all would be saint17/V1/M1/Swordlord1 with dueling sword. Still worse than str saint, but at least makes some sense.
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Pathfinder: KingmakerBuild/Mechanics discussion thread(216 posts)(216 posts)
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