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nipsen: ...And that elements that would upset creationists have been removed...
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mangafee: yeah, 'cause creationists don't play sci fi games... sigh... Let me guess, you're one of those anti corporate anti capitalist anti religious pro globalist pro open border pro everything that doesn't have a value forum activist... let me tell you, delicate flower,
Oh, don't hold back for my sake.

The point was that I know Sony has delayed and heavily influenced the creative direction of a game before, after the design had been locked for a very long time. Which cost the developer a lot of unnecessary effort, delays and problems. That then Sony in the end lost money on as well.

And they did that because PR and their community folks decided the following: if any negative concern that anyone might have will be addressed, then this means more buyers. Since, they reason, any change to the game must make it better.

I'll be specific. This is anything from Ethan's bum being shown in Heavy Rain (I'm completely serious - this was a real concern that Quantic had to address to official Sony channels. It came from some random person who was uncomfortable with male bodies being shown without clothes, and stated this concern for review as the most obvious thing in the world. He was American, btw. While what we saw in the beta-channels were people violently arguing about intimacy in France vs. the US, Cage actually pointed out that he had to pull the creative independence card to put it in the game later on post release).

And to changing core gameplay mechanics that a game was initially sold on (in the beta-channel, we were insisted on that changing the overarching commander aspect in MAG to be symbolic, and to prevent squads from actually moving out of their sectors -- the only thing that made the game stand out in the early testing was how you could cooperate with the other commanders and focus your attacks. That's what made each game unique, and what glued some of us to the screen for way too much time in the beta -- had to be changed to make the game easier to play. That they basically gave the finger to everyone who were extremely happy about the way the game actually played was of no concern).

Because that's how they think. If there is one person with a "reasonable" complaint, as they see it, they still believe that removing that concern from the game is going to make that game better. And the bigger the title, the more expectation that title has for sales - the bigger involvement after the game is finished is automatically going to be justified.

So I'm just saying that the most likely "improvements" Sony will have offered in return for the delay will be removal of very silly things no one would have had a problem with. And typically also results in serious simplification and downgrade of anything that demands focus and thought for, say, two seconds at a time.

And I'm genuinely unhappy about the fact that I pre-ordered this game and didn't anticipate Sony's involvement towards the release. Because if Hello Games had said they were contractually obligated to release on ps4 and PC at the same time, and that their studio has a close relationship with Sony's Q&A, by contract or otherwise, over focusing on how their own in-house testers did the work -- then I wouldn't have pre-ordered, and I wouldn't have had much interest in the title. Because I know, for a fact, that practically anything Sony touches turns to shit.

I know that obviously sounds like I'm exaggerating. But read the argument in the quote over there - he thinks it's obvious that if something that would offend a creationist is in the game, then that should be addressed. Because creationists also play games. So therefore, and I assure you that Sony takes this stuff seriously - if there's talk about science and evolution and origins or species in the game - then that must be sifted out by a Q&A checking the game all the way through for potential issues. Since removing that issue would shield the game from criticism (they believe - until their internal papers are "leaked", and the magazines use their fictive concerns as a reference list for everything wrong with the game, etc), and increase the potential amount of customers. Sony has done similar things before, multiple times. And I have no reason to believe they've stopped doing it.

Then there's the gameplay and controls aspect - there's always someone who will want to add more assists, remove potential failures, and for example prevent someone from doing dumb things they'd be punished for. And this is something Sean has discussed in interviews, how he liked those moments a lot - no one prompted him to do that. But wistful wondering about the things that never make it into the final game are unfortunately nr. 1 on the list after the post-development Q&A from Sony turns up.

We'll see, obviously. But I'm going to be amazingly surprised if the game survives without cuts that are so obvious any player will actually see it when they boot the game up. Trust me, there's a good reason why they keep this secret and obligate developers to keep quiet during the finalization process, also after the game is done from the studio point of view.
@Nipsen, ok, you certainly bring up valid points and we are for the most part aligned on the problem with tweaking games so as not to offend this person or that person. When I hear someone evoke 'creationist' I immediately go on the defensive (you DID choose that specific subject as opposed to 'insert political group').

Good reply, and I agree, although I don't see how this game could lose your arguments are certainly not frivolous. I see it more as a packaging logistics issue but I of course could be wrong.

Thanks for not heating up the discourse, I already feel guilty with what I wrote and I apologize.

(edit: not about RULE BRITTANIA :))
Post edited June 26, 2016 by mangafee
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mangafee: (edit: not about RULE BRITTANIA :))
No worries.

Imagine going into a nature-historic museum, though.. Except you can't, because it's closed to the general public until a group of "specialist consumers" can pinpoint every exhibit that may be insufficiently unambiguous about the age of the earth's crust, the time it takes for continents to move, the time it takes to form a planet, how old the moon is, how old trees may become, how long it takes for oil fields to develop, how the water-cycle works, what the half-life of radioactive material is, how metals are developed, and so on. And you're waiting because these exhibits shall be made more "consumer friendly", and "given a broader appeal". The director is merely "protecting their investment".

..I think what got to me about all of this Sony stuff was how utterly pointless it was.. you know? With Bosnian refugees or grey old people who drone on about something they feel is essential for their position, then you can always accept that people have very curious opinions compared to yours because of their perspectives and experiences. And in the last instance, we're dealing with people, who are variable, and the task is to make them understand each other. So you allow for that someone will sit and state with total conviction that the sky is green, and has always been green. That's something you have to put on hold while finding some common ground to start climbing from.

But when you sit and watch someone sit with a finely crafted mechanical toy in their hands, only to suddenly twist the limbs off so the cogwheels roll in every direction, beaming with a wide grin all the time.. This would sound strange if you knew me as well, but that really was the one time I genuinely lost my temper in the last 10-15 years.
https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/751141699880095745


ta-da
yep August 9-10th! :D
Oder vorher :-) schaut euch mal den link an

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/13627200_10153701117451179_2696277426668447016_n.jpg?oh=c9c947cc6e5c1dab7611a148aab38074&oe=5831ABA7
ROFLKEK!

Hmm, wonder who will get to name this strange creature first.
The GOG page still says "Soon" though. Does anybody know when it'll be available for download on GOG?
If we could pre download that would be amazing. I also have been wondering what time the game will be released here.
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Newsound: If we could pre download that would be amazing.
That's not at all compatible with a DRM-free store. There's no way to "pre-load" except through file encryption that then has to phone home to decrypt once the time is right. That's just a timed form of DRM.
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Newsound: If we could pre download that would be amazing. I also have been wondering what time the game will be released here.
Even if we can't the game's only 6gb, so shouldn't be too bad.
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Newsound: If we could pre download that would be amazing.
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paralipsis: That's not at all compatible with a DRM-free store. There's no way to "pre-load" except through file encryption that then has to phone home to decrypt once the time is right. That's just a timed form of DRM.
Yes it is drm free does not hinder pre loading at all.
It usually just means downloading everything but the executable. There is no way to play the game without it and compared to all the audio, video, and various art assets its tiny.
After release the executable is downloaded in just minutes and you can play.
Since DRM will be broken this is the only safe way to do pre loading anyway.
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paralipsis: That's not at all compatible with a DRM-free store. There's no way to "pre-load" except through file encryption that then has to phone home to decrypt once the time is right. That's just a timed form of DRM.
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zarqoon: Yes it is drm free does not hinder pre loading at all.
It usually just means downloading everything but the executable. There is no way to play the game without it and compared to all the audio, video, and various art assets its tiny.
After release the executable is downloaded in just minutes and you can play.
Since DRM will be broken this is the only safe way to do pre loading anyway.
Doing that introduces a whole new set of problems.

You introduce potential confusion with regards to what is a full install and what is a partial install on the downloads page for the game. After some time you can probably take down the pre-load installers and leave just the full installer, but in the intervening period you are pretty much guaranteeing confusion for a certain number of users and support headaches for GOG.

One alternative is to limit pre-loading to the Galaxy client only. This however does result in there being a period of time, albeit briefly, where the game is playable for Galaxy users and not for customers who opt out of client. Given that access to games is indisputably the core functionality of GOG, this feels like it encroaches on the guarantee that the client will remain wholly optional.
Still solvable Problems though. For example an update. The preloaded version could be made functional through the any version to 1.0 update package released on day 0. Or the any to 1.1 update package released later. The 1.1 to 1.2 update would maybe not work but for a lot of games these aren't packaged anyway.

You can even leave the preloaded version up indefinitely and not replace it at all. People are used to installing a patch to the newest version immediately after installation.

Another way would be for the installer to be incomplete, too. The last file containing the executable is missing. Starting the installer just checks the files and tells you that one is missing. Which you can drop in later after it is downloadable.

None of this is a lot of effort. And at least for games expected to create heavy server load because of all the people downloading lack of speed issues will decrease support efforts even if there are some people incapable of understanding the principle generating support tickets.

And btw witcher 3 could be preloaded here both though files and galaxy.
Post edited July 27, 2016 by zarqoon