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There are alot of races/classes/skills/feats to choose from so I just clicked the 'recommended' button for everything to play as a Chaotic good human fighter with standard kit. I do the same thing whenever I level up. I'm using the maps at gamebanshee.com as a guide so I don't miss side quests. And I've hit a roadblock at the prison. The spellcasting prisoner I had to attempt over and over until I got lucky and interrupted his casting 2 or 3 times in a row with myself and my henchmen Sharwyn. Then I got to the Orc and had the same problem. Is this a bad build? Or am I missing something?

This is NWN diamond I'm talking about.
Post edited May 18, 2016 by Makatak
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Makatak: I just clicked the 'recommended' button for everything
That would be part of your problem; the recommend button often gives poor advice. With that said, at low levels your strength score is the most important thing for a fighter. So long as you have at least a 16, you should be able to get through even if you've got some bad feats. The other half of the problem is that chapter 1 of the original Neverwinter Nights adventure has some very poorly balanced boss fights. That Sorcerer subboss is unfortunately the norm, and yes it's a bit frustrating if you don't know how to exploit their weaknesses.

I would actually recommend doing Shadows of Undrendtide first, if you're not opposed to a fresh start. SoU has a better story, is much better balanced, and gives you options other than brute force combat. It's a completely separate story from the original game, so you're not missing out on anything by playing them out of order (Hordes of the Underdark is a sequel to Shadows of Undrendtide, so play those in order). If you want to stick it out with the original campaign, it's definitely doable and you should be able to power through with some persistence.

If you want a suggestion for a character get you started, here's a 1-20 Rogue/Fighter build:

Human - 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha
level 1 - Rogue - Luck of Heroes, Dodge
level 2 - Fighter - Weapon Focus (you pick)
level 3 - Rogue - Knockdown
level 4 - Rogue (+ strength)
level 5 - Fighter - Power Attack
level 6 - Rogue - Cleave
level 7 - Rogue
level 8 - Rogue (+ strength)
level 9 - Fighter - Improved Knockdown
level 10 - Fighter - Weapon Specialization
level 11 - Rogue
level 12 - Rogue - Improved Critical (+ strength)
level 13 - Rogue
level 14 - Rogue - Crippling Strike
level 15 - Rogue - Toughness
level 16 - Rogue (+ strength)
level 17 - Rogue - Improved Evasion
level 18 - Rogue - Improved Power Attack
level 19 - Rogue
level 20 - Rogue - Opportunist (+ strength)

For skills, the important ones are Use Magic Device, Tumble, Persuade, and Lore. Never put ranks into parry (it sucks). Don't improve your skills when leveling up as a Fighter (fighters pay double cost for most skills); just save the points and then spend them when you next level up as a Rogue. Other than that, feel free to experiment with anything that looks interesting. One of the really fun parts about this character is that he can use scrolls and wands, which lets you dabble with spellcasting on the side.
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Makatak: There are alot of races/classes/skills/feats to choose from so I just clicked the 'recommended' button for everything to play as a Chaotic good human fighter with standard kit. I do the same thing whenever I level up. I'm using the maps at gamebanshee.com as a guide so I don't miss side quests. And I've hit a roadblock at the prison. The spellcasting prisoner I had to attempt over and over until I got lucky and interrupted his casting 2 or 3 times in a row with myself and my henchmen Sharwyn. Then I got to the Orc and had the same problem. Is this a bad build? Or am I missing something?

This is NWN diamond I'm talking about.
Recommend button works fine, dont believe others. I know the caster you are talking about. He is in the middle of the second level near chests and he throws fireballs. I can easily say that he will be the hardest opponent you will meet in the entire game and the only NPC that I keep dying to myself. (except monsters that instant kills you but there is nothing you can do about that).

EDIT: Only Downside of recommend is it puts points into Parry which is useless.
Post edited May 18, 2016 by Engerek01
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Engerek01: I know the caster you are talking about. He is in the middle of the second level near chests and he throws fireballs. I can easily say that he will be the hardest opponent you will meet in the entire game and the only NPC that I keep dying to myself. (except monsters that instant kills you but there is nothing you can do about that).
He's nasty, but hardest enemy in the game is a stretch. Each of the four districts in chapter 1 has at least one enemy that can completely curb-stomp you if you're not prepared. While it's fair to say that peninsula is the recommended first district (thus making it more likely that you'll do it first) you can do them in whatever order you like and no matter which way you go there is some boss or mini-boss that is frustratingly powerful. At very minimum, Meldannon's apprentice in Blacklake is objectively more powerful than than the sorcerer encountered in the prison, and the only reason he doesn't get the same frustration level is that most people do Blacklake last and Peninsula first, rather than the other way around. Do peninsula last, and that Sorcerer doesn't even register as a challenge by comparison to the other nasties in the chapter.
The problem with the Fighter class is that it has a very limited toolbox. Sure, you're strong, and can beat up most enemies you face. But when you run against something that uses unconventional tactics... you don't have many options.

There are still a few things you can do, though.

Firstly, you can multiclass.
A character like Darvin suggests is almost as strong as a plain fighter and MUCH more flexible. (Though you might want some more fighter levels than he suggests. His build is pretty good, but more fighter levels is more forgiving.)

If you have rogue levels and the Use Magic device skill, you can use scrolls and wands. FOr example, against that wizard, you can look for scrolls of Resist/Protection From the Elements, to block his fire. You can find scrolls of See Invisibility and Lesser Spell Breach to breach his defences. You might even be able to find scrolls of (lesser) Spell Mantle to simply absorb his first few spells.

Secondly, you can use magic items and potions.
This is definitely important for big boss fights. Drink potions of Bull's Strength, Aid and Bless, and suddenly you'll be interrupting his spells a lot more often. Potions of Endurance help you soak up damage, and potions of Clarity stop fear/confusion/paralyse spells from working on you, which is a huge lifesaver. A potion of Invisibility will let you sneak up on the mage and get the first attack in. This makes a big difference against spellcasters.

Moral of the story: Buy a magic pouch and stuff it with 10 of every kind of potion once you can afford to.

Other items also help. Use a two-handed weapon even if you don't normally use one, for you don't need a shield against spellcasters and two-handers can bash through his protective spells such as stoneskin much more easily.

There are also many magic items for sale in shops that can be a great help against specific foes. For example, belts of guiding light can stop instant death attacks, and amulets of health can stop poison. If you find a Bone Ring, hang on to it at all cost.

Think outside the box if you have to. The wizard store sells Robes of Fire Resistance. And you don't need to be a wizard to wear them. And since wizards don't hit you with physical attacks, who cares that your armour class goes down? You may not win the Fighter Fashion Award, but at least you won't burn to death.

Thirdly, you should fight smart.
Just because fighters are as subtle as a half-brick in a sock doesn't mean you should just charge in and hope for the best. That way lies the respawn screen.

Boss has a bunch of henchmen? Run away and try to lose some. Then turn around and fight the boss one on one.

Archers ruining your day? Take cover behind a rock and watch the fools run right into sword-range.

Wizard just cast Haste? Run away and wait for the spell to wear off. Then come back and demonstrate to the wizard why it sucks that he can only cast his spells once a day. By hitting him in the face with a greatsword.

Also, get the Knockdown feat. That one ruins every wizard's day.

Fourthly, you can come back later with a bigger sword.
That one almost always works in games like this. Some boss fights are just very, very tough. So go somewhere else, get another level or two, gather some gold and buy more items, and then come back when the odds are in your favour. Sporting? maybe not. Effective? Indubitably.

Anyway, I hope that helps. The game is quite fun, and you have more options than you think.

Now for some specific-but-less-important stuff.
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Makatak: There are alot of races/classes/skills/feats to choose from so I just clicked the 'recommended' button for everything to play as a Chaotic good human fighter with standard kit. I do the same thing whenever I level up. I'm using the maps at gamebanshee.com as a guide so I don't miss side quests. And I've hit a roadblock at the prison. The spellcasting prisoner I had to attempt over and over until I got lucky and interrupted his casting 2 or 3 times in a row with myself and my henchmen Sharwyn. Then I got to the Orc and had the same problem. Is this a bad build? Or am I missing something?

This is NWN diamond I'm talking about.
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Engerek01: Recommend button works fine, dont believe others. I know the caster you are talking about. He is in the middle of the second level near chests and he throws fireballs. I can easily say that he will be the hardest opponent you will meet in the entire game and the only NPC that I keep dying to myself. (except monsters that instant kills you but there is nothing you can do about that).

EDIT: Only Downside of recommend is it puts points into Parry which is useless.
The recommended button works... barely adequately for SOME classes, and not at all if you want to multiclass. Most of the time it will give you a very mediocre, but workable character if you stick to a single class. But god help you if you want to play a sorcerer and rely on that button for your spell selection...

(But it's usually pretty good for assigning stats during character creation, so that's something.)

As for instant-kills: there's almost always something you can do. Whether it's buying a magic item, or learning tricks to deal with it.

For example, a Morgh has an instant death-gaze. Clerics can cast Death Ward, but what if you're not a cleric? Well, you can always run away and shoot the damn things. Or lure them with an arrow, then jump them when they come around a corner, using knockdown. Or use a potion of invisibility to sneak up and attack. With knockdown. But even if knockdown doesn't work, once you're in melee range the Morgh will probably try to beat you instead of using his instant-death gaze.

Water Elementals are even easier. They have an area effect instant death attack that is very annoying, but huts them and is one use only. So if you angle it right, you can run PAST them, make them trigger their instant death attack whilst you're out of range. Then they're wounded and have no more instant death on the menu.

The only instant-death attack I can think of that has NO counter whatsoever is the Balor's (or Cleric's) Implosion spell. That one just sucks. Better hope your fortitude save is up in the stratosphere. Or use a scroll of spell-mantle.
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Jason_the_Iguana: Also, get the Knockdown feat. That one ruins every wizard's day.
I'm going to second, third, and fourth this. I had a monk, and his go-to attack in a 1v1 against anything with a nasty attack was to knock them down, then hit them. After swinging at the prone enemy once (hit or miss), queue another round of knockdown for when they stand back up. Rinse and repeat until they die. It saved massive amounts of wear and tear on my HP.
Since you're going the simple way with the build, which isn't a bad idea, you'll want to make sure you have gear that complements your weaknesses. An invisibility potion or something that goes boom would help in that situation.

Have some fun!
Yes, I was talking about Implosion. It drove me crazy first time i played because I assumed it was a death spell and my belt didnt work against them. I even opened [url= https://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/nwn1_death_magic_immunity_belt_doest_work ] a thread about it. [/url]
If you are playing single player, don't be ashamed to cheat a little. You can run away from the wizard into another room and chug healing potions. Always try legit tactics first, but if frustration is setting in, you can also use the Stone of Recall to teleport to safety after doing a few hits. The enemy's health will still be lower when you get back while your health will be back to full. You can even lower the difficulty setting for a tough battle. Just remember to turn it back up after. The Official Campaign was not balanced all that well at low levels in single player. There are strong builds if you want to follow a guide. Otherwise, just do what you need to finish the game. In single player, it's your game. You can do whatever you want.
It would be more accurate to say that D&D itself is often not balanced all that well at the lowest levels, and that the circumstances of many computer games exacerbate the original issue (which is pretty much it coming down to dumb luck even more than an NFL overtime game) -

* CRPGs in general, D&D or not, have developed an increasing focus on the individual player character (either because there is only the one character you have control over, as with NWN1 or Elder Scrolls, or because story reasons demand that the individual PC's fate is the success or failure of the adventure, as with BG or Shin Megami Tensei)

* D&D CRPGs, specifically, have a habit of overriding the normal rules that are designed to mitigate the abrupt "critical existence failure" factor of damage, particularly low level character damage.

Typically this means that in pen and paper (IIRC, official in all editions, except 2nd where it may have been optional?) there is a "death's door" rule where characters who drop to 0 HP are merely unconscious, and ones in the shallow negatives die more slowly (generally by losing 1 HP a round until reaching the level of negative HP that produces actual death, or until they're properly cared for and simply become unconscious until better healed).

In computer D&D, on the other hand, there's a general tendency to dispense with this and simply rule that any character who reaches 0 HP at all dies instantly, no mere unconsciousness, no "death's door," but instant, full death requiring the high level miracle of being raised rather than simple healing ... the only engines I've seen that are exceptions, are the Gold Box and NWN1/NWN2 engines (and the default scripting in NWN1 overrides it anyway by automatically damaging the PC to full death when their HP hits zero).

I'm not sure why this is the normal design decision; the fact that the Gold Box games (the earliest to implement true D&D rules, as opposed to "D&D-like" rules such as Wizardry and Bard's Tale) implemented death's door correctly means that it's not even a difficult programming manner ... in any case, it makes low level adventuring go from merely challenging (even with death's door meaning characters rarely actually *died* - as barring instant death or letting people bleed out, only an attack of 11 or more points of damage can do that - party wipes were still a thing to worry about at the lowest levels, especially in Pool of Radiance) to nail-biting randomness (another example being the infamous Bandit Archer Ring random encounter during map travel in BG1) ...
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AurelianDragon: It would be more accurate to say that D&D itself is often not balanced all that well at the lowest levels, and that the circumstances of many computer games exacerbate the original issue (which is pretty much it coming down to dumb luck even more than an NFL overtime game) -

* CRPGs in general, D&D or not, have developed an increasing focus on the individual player character (either because there is only the one character you have control over, as with NWN1 or Elder Scrolls, or because story reasons demand that the individual PC's fate is the success or failure of the adventure, as with BG or Shin Megami Tensei)

* D&D CRPGs, specifically, have a habit of overriding the normal rules that are designed to mitigate the abrupt "critical existence failure" factor of damage, particularly low level character damage.

Typically this means that in pen and paper (IIRC, official in all editions, except 2nd where it may have been optional?) there is a "death's door" rule where characters who drop to 0 HP are merely unconscious, and ones in the shallow negatives die more slowly (generally by losing 1 HP a round until reaching the level of negative HP that produces actual death, or until they're properly cared for and simply become unconscious until better healed).

In computer D&D, on the other hand, there's a general tendency to dispense with this and simply rule that any character who reaches 0 HP at all dies instantly, no mere unconsciousness, no "death's door," but instant, full death requiring the high level miracle of being raised rather than simple healing ... the only engines I've seen that are exceptions, are the Gold Box and NWN1/NWN2 engines (and the default scripting in NWN1 overrides it anyway by automatically damaging the PC to full death when their HP hits zero).

I'm not sure why this is the normal design decision; the fact that the Gold Box games (the earliest to implement true D&D rules, as opposed to "D&D-like" rules such as Wizardry and Bard's Tale) implemented death's door correctly means that it's not even a difficult programming manner ... in any case, it makes low level adventuring go from merely challenging (even with death's door meaning characters rarely actually *died* - as barring instant death or letting people bleed out, only an attack of 11 or more points of damage can do that - party wipes were still a thing to worry about at the lowest levels, especially in Pool of Radiance) to nail-biting randomness (another example being the infamous Bandit Archer Ring random encounter during map travel in BG1) ...
Interestingly enough, I can think of a few early non-D&D games with rules to mitigate "critical existence failure" (other than the common approach of making resurrection easy):

Might and Magic: Here, in MM1 and MM2, being reduced below 0 knocks you unconscious and your HP stays at 0; only getting hit while unconscious (which can only happen if enemies are using multi-target attacks) can kill you. Note that any healing effect will remove the Unconscious state. (Being reduced exactly to 0 doesn't knock you unconscious, as weird as that may be.) MM3-5 track negative HP, with 0 being unconscious, -10 being armor broken, and -(max HP) being dead.

Wasteland: Being reduced to 0 knocks you unconscious, which heals on its own, and makes you invulnerable (even explosives thrown at your party won't affect the unconscious character). Being reduced too far below 0 will cause injuries that gradually become worse until the character gets medical attention or dies. (Note that, in Wasteland, resurrection isn't supposed to be possible, and the one resurrection method that crept in by accident can only be used once.)

Dragon Wars: When you take damage, you also take Stun damage equal to twice the Health damage you took. Reaching 0 stun stuns you, at which point you are, again, invincible. Healing restores equal amounts of health and stun. Some enemies only do stun damage (though that can sometimes be ridiculous amounts), and no enemy you are meant to fight can do huge amounts of health damage to a well-armored character. (Note that resurrection requires you to reach a specific, out-of-the-way spot, and at least one surviving character must have a specific skill.)

By the way, I seem to remember Temple of Elemental Evil implementing "death's door", though I could be wrong. Anyone care to check?
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dtgreene: By the way, I seem to remember Temple of Elemental Evil implementing "death's door", though I could be wrong. Anyone care to check?
Yes, it uses 3rd edition rules to the letter. At exactly zero HP, you are "disabled". You can still move or act, but you will pass out and go to -1 HP if you do anything other than move. At -1 HP or lower, your HP drops by 1 at the end of your turn. If you reach -10 HP, you die. You can stabilize and stop losing HP with a Fortitude save, Heal check, or magic healing.

BTW I really like Dragon Wars, and I didn't actually know there was a formula of Stun being double the HP damage. Interesting!
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MadOverlord.755: BTW I really like Dragon Wars, and I didn't actually know there was a formula of Stun being double the HP damage. Interesting!
Yes, Dragon Wars is a very obscure game that should be better known; it did many interesting things in its game design. Things like, being non-linear, having a classless system, having the most important power gains be from items and spells (as opposed to level advancement), and having multiple solutions to some puzzles (especially escaping Purgatory at the start).

By the way, do you think the combination of the Gatling Bow and Magic Quiver was intended? I think so. (Remember to choose Fight rather than Quick Fight if you want to see the true power of this combo.)
I'd say the key thing is having knockdown.

Darwins suggested build is probably pretty much optimal, but while a lot of the choices are really helpful,
just taking knockdown gets your head above the water real easy.

It is resisted by discipline, which spellcasters usually suck at.
So all those high level wizards and lichs and whatever, run to them, knock them down and slap them hard.

Improved knockdown is great if you also want to knock fighters and demons and whatever,
but you being a fighter and the other guy being a wizard, the base version should suffice.
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Jarmo: I'd say the key thing is having knockdown.

Darwins suggested build is probably pretty much optimal, but while a lot of the choices are really helpful,
just taking knockdown gets your head above the water real easy.
Knockdown is great, but I don't agree about Darwins suggestion being optimal.

He built more of a Rogue than a fighter. He loses 4 attack bonus over a pure fighter, and gets much slower progression in attacks per round.

Built the other way around with 4 Rogue Levels and 16 fighter levels, he will have more attacks per round, and higher hit chance, thus higher critical chances, and higher knockdown chance. Or built as a pure fighter even more so.

Here is the first 4 levels of what I consider a more optimal fighter build:
Human Fighter

STR: 17
DEX: 13
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

01: Fighter(1): Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus: Greatsword
02: Fighter(2): Dodge
03: Fighter(3): Knockdown
04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, (STR=18)

At first level this has +2 more to hit, and has cleave, which is devastating against low level enemies when wielding a greatsword.

At 4th level he is still +2 to hit over the Rogue fighter, Damages is now 2-12 +8 with greatsword.

The 4th level rogue is 2 behind to hit, 3 behind on damage and doesn't have cleave yet.

Things like Weapons Focus, Cleave, Weapon specialization are all much better at low levels than mid levels.