OK, I just finished Crusaders of Might and Magic, and the next one on the list is Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer. As before, I just have a few quick questions before I start it.

NO SPOILERS please. Just high level advice.

1. Party composition

Again, I'd like to point out that I'm not looking for the strongest party, or the best party, but rather for one that encompasses the widest range of abilities, even the useless ones, and especially the new ones that I've not yet tried.
However I would like to know if there is anything really important, or even "game-breaking" in a given party composition. A class that really gives trouble or makes an area extremely difficult, or a class without which you'll miss out on a quest... etc.
If you have any suggestions on the below, let me know

So I'm thinking:
_Cleric. I suppose this one is a must as with all previous MM games.
_Necromancer. Again, this one seems to be the mage and is a must.
_Dragon. Because from its description it sounds really cool.
_Dark Elf. Looks interesting, plus it's something new.

_Minotaur. A mellee tank. Looks interesting too.
Alternatives for this one:
-Knight. By missing out on him, I won't get GM in Repair Item (his other GM Armmaster I can live without). How important is Repair Item? If lack of GM means that once in a blue moon I have to visit a shop for repair, then I could live with that, but I don't want it to get annoying. I really don't want to get a knight because I just played one in MM7 and I'd much rather try out one of the new classes.
-Troll. Something new, but out of the two, I prefer a Minotaur. GM in bodybuilding and regeneration aren't all that important.
-Vampire. My only issue is that it's not a mellee character. And I'm really partial to tanks. Otherwise it is a new character, with some interesting abilities. Its GM in Identify monster is something I could skip I suppose. Alternatively I could use the vampire to replace the Dark Elf, thus keeping my mellee character, but out of the two the Dark Elf sounds more interesting, and has GM in disarm traps.

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2. Starting character

Which one? How easy it is to get the remaining ones? Can I go to them immediately?

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3. Good/Evil

Are there any good/evil paths to take, like in MM7? Anything to look out for in terms of reputation? Do you need extremely high or extremely low rep to advance in Light/Dark magic like in MM6, and in this case should I postpone the completion of some quests?

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Thanks all in advance. I'll post if I think of anything more.

In Might and Magic 8 you recruit and swap party members as you go, which actually makes it much easier to try a particular class for a while and see if you like it, without having to restart the whole game if you decide you don't.

Personally, I tend to go with:
Cleric, Knight, Cleric, Vampire/Dark Elf/Troll, Necromancer

I find that having two clerics is incredibly useful, especially late game when you kind Power Cure and the like. The Knight, as you said, is mostly for tanking and repairing, but is also a major damage dealer against magic-resistant enemies. The Necromancer in my opinion is a must have, because some of the later dungeons are near impossible without some major elemental (or dark) magic.
The last slot, I tend to vary on each playthrough. Usually either Vampire, who has some cool abilities like regeneration and levitation and can become a pretty good damage dealer with daggers (or possibly swords, I don't remember exactly); or the Dark Elf, mostly for the Grand Master Merchant skill and a little bit more elemental magic.

I've heard that the Dragon class can be incredibly over-powered, but I've never found it very interesting myself.


As for the starting character, I tend to choose a Cleric, to ensure that I always have some healing capabilities throughout the game.

Yay, I can help again! ;)

-From what I recall, if you want to experiment with (almost) everything (especially the magic), then your party should ultimately consist of a Dark Elf, Necromancer, Vampire, Cleric, and Dragon. You only make your PC though, and you can have up to 4 other characters in your party at any time (though you may have fewer than that, even going solo if you like). Anyone you convince to join you will wait at the adventurers guild while not in your active party; if you have an open party slot, they'll go ahead and join your party when they enlist. My first run through I used a Dark Elf as my PC, and I kept the starting town's recruits until I got a dragon (dragon replaced the knight). Because only the PC is permanent, I always have him drink all of the stat barrels and use all horseshoes instead of sharing with the rest of the party (you might choose to share).

-You can acquire a Necromancer, Vampire, and Cleric before leaving the first town, and you'll add a Knight to your party before leaving the first dungeon. Those are the "freebies". After that, you'll have to look around for additional possible recruits. Most won't join you until you are a high enough level (usually around their level), some won't join you until you complete a quest, and some won't join until both conditions are met (level and quest). I think the levels are 5, 10, 15, 20/25/30, and 50 (not sure about that intermediate number), and there is generally one character of each class/race per level step. In spite of what some may say, it is your level, not your fame or reputation, that determines when most adventurers will be willing to join; most will say something to the effect of "You're too inexperienced" if you need to level up. Note that there are some quest choices you have to make that will preclude you from adding certain adventurers to your roster of potential recruits; as I recall, the characters will be pretty clear about when they are "lost forever" as opposed to just waiting for you to get stronger (and thus worthy of leading them). All new adventurers have a little bit of starting gear.

[Edit: I've since found out that "level based" NPCs that join you don't actually care about your level. They're actually based on your progress through the main quest line, with higher level ones being willing to join you after you complete certain benchmark quests.]

Note that there is an adventurers guild in Dagger Wound Island (where you start), and I think there is one more in either Ravenshore or Alvar (maybe both?). Any potential party member you accept but can't hold and anyone you dismiss from your party can be recruited again at the guild (doesn't matter which). They will have whatever they were holding at the time of dismissal, so you can use them as pack horses for extra stuff; this can make the game a bit easier since later on you'll basically have more storage space than you need, but I don't think there is a safe storage space other than the extra adventurers (unlike your chests in Harmondale). You can dismiss party members at any time, and you can rehire party members whenever you are at an adventurers guild, but only the characters that are with you at the time will gain quest rewards, etc. so it would be wise to just pick your party and stick with them (possibly upgrading if you find someone stronger and you are willing to replace a current member). After completing promotion quests, you can bring other characters to the P. quest giver to get them promoted, even if that adventurer wasn't used to complete the P. quest. There is only one promotion for each class/race (unlike MM6 and MM7).

-Anyone you can recruit will be found in a "building". Recruitable adventurers won't be walking around.

-Be aware that not all "monsters" are hostile when seen wandering around! For example, most minotaurs are friendly, there is an area with some ogre peasants, and there are a lot of dragons that aren't initially hostile.

Races:
-Dragons are kind of overpowered, and you can't use one as your PC. They have several limitations, like their only magic is "Dragon" and the only equipment they can wear are rings and amulets, but they have natural strengths too. Their natural (and only) attack is ranged (it is also used in melee range and has the same properties) and doesn't miss, and I think it is considered "non-elemental" or "energy" so it can't be resisted by monsters either. Other than that, it mostly behaves like an arrow; it can be blocked by walls and dodged if monsters are zig-zagging. Dragons have four spells, three of which are basically renamed versions of other spells: Cause Fear, Fly, and Fireball, while the fourth (Wing Buffet) is a little unique. They have very few skills, but putting skill points in their "Dragon" skill improves a lot of their abilities (spells, damage, AC, and I think some other stats too). There is a level 5 dragon in Garrote Gorge that you can get before doing much in the game, though I don't remember precisely where.

-Minotaurs are a bit underpowered. They are, more or less, paladins that use axes. However, they can't wear helmets or boots because of horns and hooves, and there isn't much benefit to offset this drawback (unlike the dragon). The minotaur might be a little harder than the dragon to get early; I don't remember because I've never used them. I think most of them are in Ravage Roaming; be careful when wandering around there. I'd advise against using a minotaur for a PC; if you want to try one out then hire one.

-Having a Cleric and a Necromancer is almost a must. They are pretty much the same as previous games, except they start with Light or Dark (respectively). One of each can be found in the starting town.

-Vampires have some neat abilities and can help some with the healing since they have self magic. Dual wield those GM daggers ftw! One can be found in the starting town. I like having one, but the only unique thing they bring to the party is Vampire magic. Some vamp magic can be useful (mainly levitate), but you can do without it pretty easily.

-I really like Dark Elves. Dual swords, GM Disarm Trap, GM Merchant, GM bow, M elemental magic, some neat racial spells; the Dark Elf just hits a lot of the "I want that" buttons for me. You can get a level 50 Dark Elf quite early if you know what to do; I'm sure you can imagine how much easier things get having so much power that early. I think the lowest level Dark Elf adventurer can be found in Ravenshore. For me, the Dark Elf is the third (and last) "Must Have One" party member.

-Trolls do three things: Have hit points, regenerate, and hit things with a mace. That's about all they are good for, but they are REALLY good at it. One play through I took a troll as my PC, and it was a blast watching him wade through and paralyze monsters left and right. After awhile his only skill worth adding points to was Mace. Nothing like a free 25%+ chance to paralyze (per attack!) to make fights easy. I think the earliest you can get a troll is in the Ironsand Desert; I don't remember how easy it is to get. Fighting can be done by other characters, so trolls are something of a luxury when experimenting.

-Knight can repair GM, and he has more weapon choices, but he doesn't regenerate on his own. Otherwise, he's pretty similar to a troll. You can have a knight with repair at the adventurers guild fix your broken stuff, and later on you can just teleport to the guild as needed (town portal, lloyd's beacon), so I consider a knight non-essential. I don't recall having major issues with broken equipment, but it does happen.

Other notes:
-There are no ancient weapons to mow things down in the end game, so plan accordingly.

-Reputation is a non-thing this game. It will never change regardless of what you do; it looks like NWC used the same engine as previous games but never did anything with the Reputation stat for this one. Fame also doesn't matter for anything.

-There are no good/evil paths (ex. Bracada vs Deyja), though there are two cases of opposing factions warring with each other and in each case you'll have to choose to help one of the two factions involved. In each instance, the leader of one faction will give you a quest to do one thing, and the leader of the other faction will give you a quest to do a different thing. The faction you side against will turn hostile to you for the rest of the game, and one or two high level adventurers aligned with that faction will never join you (the corresponding one(s) aligned with the faction you supported will become willing to join you). Note that only a handful of adventurers have this faction related restriction; other adventurers of the same class will still be willing to join you. Until you actually complete the quest that chooses your side, both factions will remain friendly. The cut scene for completing each faction's quest is kind of neat, so save and try it out before making your choice for the game.

-There are a couple of quests that require a certain character be in your party while you do something. These quests are clearly defined, and you can replace the character with your normal party member once the quest is complete. If you normally use a Dark Elf, Necromancer, Cleric, Vampire, and Dragon, I'd recommend dropping the vamp while you run the quest (though it is your choice of who to replace). After the quest is over, the adventurer essential to the quest can be treated like any other adventurer.

-I've read that monsters tend to target the characters that are farther to the left in your party order more often. I haven't noticed much difference either way, but it is something to keep in mind. Have the tankier guys standing more to the left (closer to your PC) when organizing your party. Party members always fill in from left to right, and I think you have to dismiss/re-add them to adjust the marching order.

Game wants you to choose Knight at start of the game, so I'd recommend that as well.

You can get low level Cleric, Necromancer and Vampire in starting zone, which seem to work well together and cover wide variety of spells.

Dragon is quite overpowered in this game, you can get Dark Elf for 5th slot if you want to have another class with exclusive spells. 2nd Cleric also works good for additional healing, as this game has only 1 promotion, and classes overall end up being weaker than in previous games (dragon is being exception), meanwhile there are few monsters which are even more powerful than Gold/Red Dragons from MM VI/VII.

What makes you say Knight is the encouraged class?

Also, which monsters are you referring to? I don't remember many critters being that bad. The earth elementals?

It is based on the notion of previous games in the series, first character is either Knight or Paladin. There is no Paladin here, and game creation screen defaults to knight. Also there is uncofirmed theory that first slot takes most attention from monsters, and Knight is the most enduring among starting classes. Gold/Red Dragons in MM VI/VII - Lv.100, 1300 HP.

MM VIII features Ruby Dragons - Lv.125, 1937 HP (monster hierarchy is mainly based on Lv). This game is much shorter than previous games, so you will want to focus on some selected chars because you will start to encounter high level monsters much sooner (or just take dragons and don't bother). Grinding exp is trickier here (as MM 8 is shorter) and max level is 200 (unlike in MM 6/7, where it wasn't hard capped).

There are five slots. Stick with four basic players and leave the last slot for the occasional tag-along needed for the mission. This game is easier than VI or VII and can with certain choices becomes Verrrrrry easy. These choice include adding a dragon to your party; adding to your party a certain Dark Elf during the first part of the game; or going with five party members.
If you go with four slots and stay with your original players, the game can be fun.
In some ways I think it was the best story of the three I've played. But I never felt like my party was being tested. (Eradicated if I went to certain sites too early but never tested like the Baa Temple in Ironfist.)

If you want to take a Knight, Troll, or Minotaur, then I'd suggest either Troll or Minotaur. As stated previously, you get a knight pretty early on.

You could raise the vampire until you try out the GM (as indicated, the only real unique skill is Vampire magic), then switch to a dragon, and that should be fine. Just select one of the higher level dragons when you are ready. Be aware that attaining GM (almost?) always requires a character to be promoted, and I recall the vampire promotion being one of the harder ones.

Alternatively, and I think this is the easier/better way, grab everyone you want to use long term and play with them, then just take a high level vamp out for a spin when you get one. Higher level characters will have spent more of their skill points independent of what you might have chosen (so there is some waste); I've never tried to calculate how many skill points each adventurer has earned and has wasted, so I don't know if high level characters actually have more total skill points than if you raised the character from level 1. I think most adventurers spend at least some of their points in their class specific skills, and most have unspent skill points when recruited. I think the level 50 characters have their class specific skills already GM'd.

As for the PC: in a general sense I recommend picking someone you are pretty sure you will always want in the party, keeping in mind that you get a necromancer, vampire, cleric and knight right at the beginning. I don't care for the equipment limitation on minotaurs, and that's about the only reason I advise against one. I think they'd be a pretty solid party member if not for that. They can wear plate, they use self magic, GM axe, and I think they have pretty decent hp, so maybe I'm just being too biased about the blocked equipment. The dragon is a lot different than other character classes, and they seem to get some good compensation for the general lack of equipment, so their restriction doesn't bother me so much.

Honestly, as long as you have a mix of character classes you should be able to muddle through just about everything. A necromancer and a cleric are about the only two that really need to come along (elemental utility spells, and healing and Protection From Magic), and you could probably make do without either of them if you really wanted. At some point, I want to play a necromancer and lead a party full of dragons (with maybe one cleric in the back) to victory with GM learning for all. I'd argue a troll might be a better candidate for Most Enduring (regeneration), but Knights are pretty hardy. I think the previous games just put the tougher characters "up front" more than the casters, and SOME class has to be the default choice at character creation. *shrug*

I'd forgotten about the Ruby Dragons. They weren't a huge deal, as I recall. Then again, you could encounter the MM6 dragons long before you were really ready for them, while Ruby dragons don't come in until pretty late. There are only 2 or 3 tag-along quests in the game, so I don't think this is a big deal. *shrug* Smaller party size is perfectly viable, though.

Thanks for the advice. I'll be starting Thursday or Friday, depending on my workload.

Thanks all for your input. I might be back here if any additional questions come up during the game.

Thread bookmarked so I can keep an eye out. Good luck, and enjoy!

You can get characters of pretty much whatever class you want as soon as you get off the boat at Ravenshore, iirc. I don't think the NPC hireling system is all that well-implemented, but generally speaking you're better off sticking with the level 5 guys for each class and leveling them up how you want them to... at least until you bench them in favor of the level 50 guys for each class, most of whom you can't get until near the end of the game anyways.

M&M VIII is not very hard, even without putting a dragon or Cauri Blackthorne in your party (though I recommend at least trying out the former, because it's pretty funny how broken they are), so discussion about which classes are the best is less important than VI or VII. Clerics and Necromancers are required if you want GM magic, obviously, Knights are still the king of physical damage. Trolls are giant meatshields, Minotaurs are like Rangers, so their spellcasting is of limited use (but they do get an artifact axe as part of their promotion quest) Vampires never really impressed me (though their class-exclusive levitate spell is useful), Dark Elves are pretty dang good, and Dragons are broken.

That's the trick to the super-easy quick playthrough, too. You can get the level 50 Dark Elf any time, as long as you can get to her without dying. Once you have her, you should have enough magic to be able to then get the level 50 Knight immediately too. Once you have the two of those, the earlier quests and such become trivial to fly through until you can get the rest of the level 50 characters.
(Intentionally avoided all names and places to reduce spoilers).

Personally, I far prefer to take all of the level 5 starting characters and level them up myself, which gives the same feel as having created your own party as in previous games.

Yeah, those two were the ones I had in mind when I mentioned that most level 50 NPCs weren't available until the end of the game (i.e. when your main character is level 50 themselves). The knight is good, he comes with a powerful spear, but the Dark Elf comes with every elemental spell up to Master level, which is all you need for the most part. In fact, if you've ever seen a M&M VIII speedrun, it's pretty obvious how clutch she is to breaking the game wide-open.

OK, new stuff kept coming up, but I finally had time to start this today.

I picked the 3 NPCs and explored the town. Then it stopped going too well. Those pirates keep kicking my ass and respawning. I can kill a wave or too, but they just respawn again and again and again.

Anyone can quickly tell me what to do? Will the respawn eventually end, or is this done on purpose so you leave the area alone and go somewhere else? Or will the lizardmen be overrun if I don't help them?

Kind of silly to consult a walkthrough this early on...