Posted October 02, 2012
thebes
RPG TURTLE
Registered: Oct 2011
From United States
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
Posted January 31, 2022
Sorry for bumping a very old thread but this is very relevant for me as I am in the same situation now :-) I just finished MM1 and MM2 and when I read the MM3 manual (which only covers story and some really basic and incomplete tips) and started the game, I really felt like I'm lacking crucial information. Not just the UI and controls (which can be learned by trial and error or from the web linked in this topic) but also some detailed information which was present in MM1 and MM2 manuals - like detailed information about secondary skills (e.g. you need mountaineering and pathfinding on 2 characters, crusader on all characters unlike MM1 and MM2 etc.), about spells, saving/loading process, automap, quests etc.
Now there is a suggestion here to read World of Xeen manual, but:
1) I don't want to read any story spoilers there (if there are any).
2) I don't know if all the information there is also valid for MM3 (if some rules or mechanics changed or there are some new things in WoX, it would just confuse me ;-) ).
I tried to google the manual (thinking that maybe GoG version is cut out) but it really seems like the manual here is the only one. So I have the same question as the author of this thread - how had the people played it back then when the game was released?
Any tips other than "just play the game and figure it all out"?
Now there is a suggestion here to read World of Xeen manual, but:
1) I don't want to read any story spoilers there (if there are any).
2) I don't know if all the information there is also valid for MM3 (if some rules or mechanics changed or there are some new things in WoX, it would just confuse me ;-) ).
I tried to google the manual (thinking that maybe GoG version is cut out) but it really seems like the manual here is the only one. So I have the same question as the author of this thread - how had the people played it back then when the game was released?
Any tips other than "just play the game and figure it all out"?
dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Posted January 31, 2022
A few important things to know about MM3:
* The Walk on Water spell is only available to Druids and Rangers, and it's rather important given that the game world consists of a bunch of islands surrounded by water. (A Ranger is good enough for this purpose.)
* I don't consider Mr. Wizard to be cheating, but be aware that using it costs a level (and a level's worth of XP) from each of your characters.
Pralev.969: 2) I don't know if all the information there is also valid for MM3 (if some rules or mechanics changed or there are some new things in WoX, it would just confuse me ;-) ). Some differences:
* MM3 has a few spells that aren't in World of Xeen, like Half for Me (which isn't as good as it should be to be for normal usage, but has an exploit attached that can cause an integer overflow).
* One change is that, in MM3, Recharge Item works on any item, while in Xeen it doesn't work on potions, scrolls, or any item that casts the "Recharge Item" spell.
* The World of Xeen manual fails to mention that Raise Dead, Resurrection, and Divine Intervention cause aging, and that Resurrection will lower the target's Endurance permanently. These drawbacks do occur in both games, but only the Isles of Terra manual actually mentions these drawbacks.
ZFR: What secondary skills to take? Manual says you need crusader for *every* one in party in order to do castle quests? Does it mean you have to sacrifice 1 spot for every member just to enter the castles? All of them.
There's no limit on the number of secondary skills you can give a character, unlike in MM2.
By the way, a few other MM3/Xeen differences:
* MM3 has hirelings, Xeen does not.
* In MM3, visiting a store takes an hour, but in Xeen it takes a full day.
* MM3 has alignment, while Xeen does not.
This is one of the issues I have with these games; the game doesn't tell you how much damage you deal, and HP is not visible on the main screen. It's one thing that's a huge step down from MM2. That is a good idea if it's your first playthrough, but you can actually skip this if you're familiar with the game, as there's another way to get Thievery. (Note that this is not the case in World of Xeen; in Swords of Xeen, it is the case, but you don't really need Thievery in that mess of a game.)
* The Walk on Water spell is only available to Druids and Rangers, and it's rather important given that the game world consists of a bunch of islands surrounded by water. (A Ranger is good enough for this purpose.)
* I don't consider Mr. Wizard to be cheating, but be aware that using it costs a level (and a level's worth of XP) from each of your characters.
* MM3 has a few spells that aren't in World of Xeen, like Half for Me (which isn't as good as it should be to be for normal usage, but has an exploit attached that can cause an integer overflow).
* One change is that, in MM3, Recharge Item works on any item, while in Xeen it doesn't work on potions, scrolls, or any item that casts the "Recharge Item" spell.
* The World of Xeen manual fails to mention that Raise Dead, Resurrection, and Divine Intervention cause aging, and that Resurrection will lower the target's Endurance permanently. These drawbacks do occur in both games, but only the Isles of Terra manual actually mentions these drawbacks.
There's no limit on the number of secondary skills you can give a character, unlike in MM2.
By the way, a few other MM3/Xeen differences:
* MM3 has hirelings, Xeen does not.
* In MM3, visiting a store takes an hour, but in Xeen it takes a full day.
* MM3 has alignment, while Xeen does not.
This is one of the issues I have with these games; the game doesn't tell you how much damage you deal, and HP is not visible on the main screen. It's one thing that's a huge step down from MM2. That is a good idea if it's your first playthrough, but you can actually skip this if you're familiar with the game, as there's another way to get Thievery. (Note that this is not the case in World of Xeen; in Swords of Xeen, it is the case, but you don't really need Thievery in that mess of a game.)
Post edited January 31, 2022 by dtgreene
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted January 31, 2022
ZFR from 2012 visited me today and says he appreciates your responses.
Did you check the menu on the left of this link?
http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/mm3/general.shtml
It has information on secondary skills, spells, status ailments.... etc. Just ignore the ones which have spoilers like Puzzle Spoilers and Walkthrough
Aside from that, play and enjoy. MM3 was my favourite of the first generation MM games (1-5).
Did you check the menu on the left of this link?
http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/mm3/general.shtml
It has information on secondary skills, spells, status ailments.... etc. Just ignore the ones which have spoilers like Puzzle Spoilers and Walkthrough
Aside from that, play and enjoy. MM3 was my favourite of the first generation MM games (1-5).
Post edited January 31, 2022 by ZFR
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
Posted January 31, 2022
http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/mm3/general.shtml
It has information on secondary skills, spells, status ailments.... etc. Just ignore the ones which have spoilers like Puzzle Spoilers and Walkthrough
Aside from that, play and enjoy. MM3 was my favourite of the first generation MM games (1-5).
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
Posted February 02, 2022
Ok, I already have a few questions:
1) According to that RPGClassics page there is Spot Secret Doors secondary skill which does this: "Causes the gargoyle on the right of the adventuring screen to wave its arm when the party approaches a wall which hides a secret passage. Only one character needs to have this skill for it to work."
Does it mean that I do not have to try to pass through all the walls anymore like I had to do in MM1,2? Does this skill always work?
2) This question is a bit related to the first. In MM2 when I was exploring and mapping an area, I had to turn to all 4 directions on every square, beause some events (e.g. a dialog or cave entrance) only triggered when I was facing the correct side (I believe, although not 100% sue, that this was not the case in MM1). Is it the same in MM3?
3) When I level up and train, do I get maximume possible HPs (like in MM2) or is it random (like in MM1)? Also are all towns training centers equivalent (like in MM1) or not (like in MM2)?
1) According to that RPGClassics page there is Spot Secret Doors secondary skill which does this: "Causes the gargoyle on the right of the adventuring screen to wave its arm when the party approaches a wall which hides a secret passage. Only one character needs to have this skill for it to work."
Does it mean that I do not have to try to pass through all the walls anymore like I had to do in MM1,2? Does this skill always work?
2) This question is a bit related to the first. In MM2 when I was exploring and mapping an area, I had to turn to all 4 directions on every square, beause some events (e.g. a dialog or cave entrance) only triggered when I was facing the correct side (I believe, although not 100% sue, that this was not the case in MM1). Is it the same in MM3?
3) When I level up and train, do I get maximume possible HPs (like in MM2) or is it random (like in MM1)? Also are all towns training centers equivalent (like in MM1) or not (like in MM2)?
dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Posted February 02, 2022
1) According to that RPGClassics page there is Spot Secret Doors secondary skill which does this: "Causes the gargoyle on the right of the adventuring screen to wave its arm when the party approaches a wall which hides a secret passage. Only one character needs to have this skill for it to work."
Does it mean that I do not have to try to pass through all the walls anymore like I had to do in MM1,2? Does this skill always work?
2) This question is a bit related to the first. In MM2 when I was exploring and mapping an area, I had to turn to all 4 directions on every square, beause some events (e.g. a dialog or cave entrance) only triggered when I was facing the correct side (I believe, although not 100% sue, that this was not the case in MM1). Is it the same in MM3?
3) When I level up and train, do I get maximume possible HPs (like in MM2) or is it random (like in MM1)? Also are all towns training centers equivalent (like in MM1) or not (like in MM2)?
Maximum HP is actually a derived stat in this game. Given a character's other parameters (race, class, current Endurance, secondary skills, current Level), it is possible to determine a character's maximum HP. This has some implications:
* It doesn't matter where you train, and there's no RNG involved with hit point growth. The only catch is that each training center has a limit to how high you can level up, and once you reach it, you need to find a better place to train.
* If your level or Endurance changes, so will your maximum HP. This means that, if a fountain gives you 20 temporary levels, you also get 20 levels worth of maximum HP until it wears off.
* This means that a loss of level or Endurance (perhaps that fountain wore off?) can result in a character's current HP being above its maximum; if the gem beneath the character's portrait turns silver, this is a sign that this has happened. (There are a couple other ways this could happen, like if you drink from an HP fountain, or if you're exploiting a quirk of the Half for Me spell.)
* Worth noting that training costs scale quadraticly with your level, so training to high levels can get very expensive. (This becomes a huge problem late in World of Xeen, to the point where you're going to run out of money long before you run out of XP. Note that the training mechanics are the same between these two games.)
In summary, the only thing you need to worry about training, other than the cost and time, is that you will eventually need to go to other towns to train higher; it doesn't otherwise matter where you get the levels.
Vyraexii
evilspacemonkey
Registered: Apr 2012
From Canada
Posted February 02, 2022
1) According to that RPGClassics page there is Spot Secret Doors secondary skill which does this: "Causes the gargoyle on the right of the adventuring screen to wave its arm when the party approaches a wall which hides a secret passage. Only one character needs to have this skill for it to work."
Does it mean that I do not have to try to pass through all the walls anymore like I had to do in MM1,2? Does this skill always work?
2) This question is a bit related to the first. In MM2 when I was exploring and mapping an area, I had to turn to all 4 directions on every square, beause some events (e.g. a dialog or cave entrance) only triggered when I was facing the correct side (I believe, although not 100% sue, that this was not the case in MM1). Is it the same in MM3?
3) When I level up and train, do I get maximume possible HPs (like in MM2) or is it random (like in MM1)? Also are all towns training centers equivalent (like in MM1) or not (like in MM2)?
though instead of walking thru the wall you have to bash it to break it
#2 there are walls that have writing on them that you can only see by looking right at them up close.
i dont remember if there is anything else that required looking in a specific direction.
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
Posted February 02, 2022
Thank you very much, guys. This looks like there was some serious improvement in quality of life in this installment :-)
dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Posted February 02, 2022
By the way, the Wizard Eye spell also makes it obvious where there are false walls, as real walls now take up an entire square.
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
Posted February 02, 2022
By the way, the Wizard Eye spell also makes it obvious where there are false walls, as real walls now take up an entire square.
And thank you again.
Vyraexii
evilspacemonkey
Registered: Apr 2012
From Canada
Pralev.969
New User
Registered: Apr 2013
From Czech Republic
dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Posted February 06, 2022
It's worth noting that there are enemies that specifically target characters of a certain race or class, and will always attack such characters if possible (though they won't target unconscious characters).
Protection spells are worth it in this game. If you can reduce the damage you take to 0 with the help of protection spells and/or Power Shield, you also prevent status ailments from enemy attacks. If an enemy is instantly killing your characters, try casting Power Shield on everyone. (There's one enemy type I'm thinking of in particular; frustratingly unfair if you don't use the spell, and harmless (at the level you'd likely be at that point) if you are.)
Also, AC is useless except against enemies that do physical damage. Each enemy does only one type of damage, so if you're fighting enemies that don't do physical damage, you can ignore AC and spells that boost it.
Post edited February 06, 2022 by dtgreene
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted February 07, 2022
As dtgreene said, unfortunately there is no way to protect certain party members. All are in front.
By the way, my biggest gripe about this game compared to MM1/2, is the lack of shortcuts for spells. In the previous one, you had to use numbers, and pretty soon you memorised the most common ones used (I even created macros for the extra keys on my keyboard). In this one, it becomes tedious if you have to click on them one by one.