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Legend of Grimrock seriesIn the beginning, need some guidance(9 posts)(9 posts)
(9 posts)
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Posted May 07, 2012
OK, my first impression is good but I think I need to restart. I didn't understand the game mechanics before I picked my characters and I think I wasted one. I picked two fighters, one rogue and a mage. Now my rogue specialize in daggers but I can't reach my front enemy since I use the fighters in two front row.

Should I restart specializing my rogue with a throw weapon instead? Also, the throw weapons. So far I've only found a throwing daggers and I think 3 stones but after I've thrown them I can't pick them up during combat. Is that an issue further in the game because if ammunition is an issue (I play and intend to continue on Normal) then perhaps I should refigure my party setup.

About the mage. The game gives no indication of what the magic schools specialize in so how are one suppose to know which one could make use of? I picked air and ice because I prefer to avoid fire (fire is way too common for my taste) and I usually can't make use of earth type of spells in most RPGs.
Posted May 07, 2012
Don't worry too much. Firstly, the points you pick initially don't really force your hand; it's easy to simply put points into the other categories when you level up. Putting points into thrown or missile weapon would be wise initially, but note that if you reach level 12 in Assassination, you can use your dagger from the back row. This should also take care of any ammunition concerns (although it's generally not an issue).

As I'm only about halfway through the game myself I can't really properly advise you on magic, but it seems that while Fire and Ice are pretty self explanatory, Earth focuses more on poisoning effects, and Air uses lightning and even invisibility.
Posted May 07, 2012
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Musashi1596: Don't worry too much. Firstly, the points you pick initially don't really force your hand; it's easy to simply put points into the other categories when you level up. Putting points into thrown or missile weapon would be wise initially, but note that if you reach level 12 in Assassination, you can use your dagger from the back row. This should also take care of any ammunition concerns (although it's generally not an issue).

As I'm only about halfway through the game myself I can't really properly advise you on magic, but it seems that while Fire and Ice are pretty self explanatory, Earth focuses more on poisoning effects, and Air uses lightning and even invisibility.
Thanks a lot! About what I was looking for. :)
Posted May 08, 2012
12 points of Assassination (3 levels worth) will enable back-row attacks (as well as the backstab bonus). Otherwise, keep focusing on daggers.

Mixing melee and thrown/missile doesn't generally work too well: the weapon skills passively add a large amount to your attack values (worth far more than the stat bumps you get at specific points), so your accuracy and damage will suffer if you divide points too much. Moreover, thrown/missile weapons are (somewhat unconventionally) entirely Str-based, whereas a melee character wants Dex above all else.

As far as the magic types go: they all offer four similar powers (basic blast, long range bolt, arrow enchant, and damage shield), except for Air, which also has an invisibility spell. Earth is generally seen as the weakest mainly because of the frequency with which you encounter poison-immune creatures, and it requires a different play style to use effectively.

Air and Fire are both fairly straightforward blasting magic types; fire can become stronger via the use of an item you'll find, while air has the advantage of not having to deal with immunities (and the aforementioned Invisibility utility effect).

Cold is a lower-damage option that is a bit better at hitting multiple targets and potentially freezing them for a short period, making it easier to smack them around without facing retaliation. It's more of a tactical/support school than a blasting one.
Posted May 08, 2012
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Garran: Earth is generally seen as the weakest mainly because of the frequency with which you encounter poison-immune creatures, and it requires a different play style to use effectively.
[...]
Cold is a lower-damage option that is a bit better at hitting multiple targets and potentially freezing them for a short period, making it easier to smack them around without facing retaliation. It's more of a tactical/support school than a blasting one.
Earth can be the strongest spell you have just with 3 points invested in it. The shaman's staff makes poison cloud deadly. I always put 3 points in earth on my ice mages, because a frozen target can still be poisoned.

There are far more (frequent, and deadly) fire immune creatures to encounter than there are earth immune. Its just early game you encounter a lot of undead so earth gets a bad reputation. Its only the big red topped plant creatures that are also poison immune, all other plant types are vulnerable, even the little guys.
Posted May 08, 2012
About frozen enemies can still be poisoned, is that mentioned in-game or only via testing?
Posted May 08, 2012
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Porkdish: Earth can be the strongest spell you have just with 3 points invested in it. The shaman's staff makes poison cloud deadly. I always put 3 points in earth on my ice mages, because a frozen target can still be poisoned.

There are far more (frequent, and deadly) fire immune creatures to encounter than there are earth immune. Its just early game you encounter a lot of undead so earth gets a bad reputation. Its only the big red topped plant creatures that are also poison immune, all other plant types are vulnerable, even the little guys.
It isn't just the presence of poison-immune creatures (fire mages actually don't suffer as much from the fire immune creatures because the shield spell pretty much negates them as a threat, allowing the rest of the party to destroy them with ease) that creates a problem for earth mages: poison cloud, while powerful, requires that you keep creatures inside it. This is great if you have a door or other obstruction to exploit, but the typical side-stepping combat technique employed in this game makes it very difficult to use the poison cloud DoT to full effect (and in some cases, downright impossible). If you're playing on easy then it's much more viable to simply stand in front of something and let the DoT go to work, but on normal it's liable to hurt too much against most enemies, and on hard it'll get you pulverized.

Now, a combined poison/frost approach is one way around that (although much more demanding to manage, and possibly at the expense of other characters being able to smack the things in the meantime), but as a standalone school, earth probably isn't a good choice for a first-time player.

Second time around, I'd say go for it - you also have the advantage of knowing what you'll face and where you'll face it, so setting up those DoTs effectively becomes more practical. The first-time player is probably better off sticking to one of the other three schools, though.

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Nirth_90: AFAIK, nothing suggests that frozen enemies can't be damaged by poison. Being frozen prevents them from moving or acting, but it doesn't make them invulnerable.
Posted May 08, 2012
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Garran: Nirth_90: AFAIK, nothing suggests that frozen enemies can't be damaged by poison. Being frozen prevents them from moving or acting, but it doesn't make them invulnerable.
I assumed Porkdish was talking about poison immune enemies can be poisoned whilst they're frozen but I may have misunderstood. I was just curious of how the game gives you information like that or more of a test-it-yourself.
Posted May 08, 2012
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Garran: It isn't just the presence of poison-immune creatures (fire mages actually don't suffer as much from the fire immune creatures because the shield spell pretty much negates them as a threat, allowing the rest of the party to destroy them with ease).
I had nearly all my party at 30-90% fire resist by the end (high dex, book & necklace). Without a fire mage. More protection is great, but I'd rather be doing damage.

I'm a little confused though, if you're saying poison is a bad choice because you're busy manually dodging and evading enemies, what good is fire shield then?

If you're advocating protecting yourself and then standing in front of the fire guys, then there's no reason not to get 3 points of earth for the cloud, equip the shaman staff and do great poison damage.
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Garran: ...poison cloud, while powerful, requires that you keep creatures inside it. [...]
Now, a combined poison/frost approach is one way around that (although much more demanding to manage, and possibly at the expense of other characters being able to smack the things in the meantime), but as a standalone school, earth probably isn't a good choice for a first-time player.
Whats hard about freezing a guy and then poisoning him? Its a natural fit.

There's nothing wrong with earth/poison. I don't think new players drawn to it should feel like they 'picked wrong'. Early game you're doing modest damage with your bolt hitting for roughly 55 (24 earth). Mid game you pick up the Shaman staff, raising your bolt to the 70s and your cloud to 15+/sec.

Thats nothing to sneeze at, being better damage per second than the average axe or mace fighter in the team.
Post edited May 08, 2012 by Porkdish
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Legend of Grimrock seriesIn the beginning, need some guidance(9 posts)(9 posts)
(9 posts)