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Baggins: "Also it's rather ironic that statement, as TSL and the fan-remakes were much better than "Mask of Eternity" which was a big company product"

That's a matter of opinion. Actually I find Mask of Eternity to better than TSL. KQ6 is the best IMO though.
+1 Mask of Eternity is better by far.
Post edited September 10, 2015 by flashpulse
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Baggins: "Also it's rather ironic that statement, as TSL and the fan-remakes were much better than "Mask of Eternity" which was a big company product"

That's a matter of opinion. Actually I find Mask of Eternity to better than TSL. KQ6 is the best IMO though.
I'm probably in minority, but I think that KQ4 is best game of the series.

I also think that Mask of Eternity isn't as bad as people always claim it is. While I'm not huge action fan, the game is actually quite enjoyable. But the biggest issue I had with MoE was it's somewhat disappointing ending. I would have preferred a longer cutscene which explains what happened to Connor afterwards.

And when it comes to fan games, I'm not too happy about the changes to the canon which they make. I like that the stories are relatively independent and everything isn't connected with everything else.

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Baggins: "Fair enough. But I won't forgive it for more or less sending the entire adventure gaming industry down the crapper."

KQ8 didn't doom Adventure games. Adventure games were already doomed before KQ8. The market just wasn't interested in them at that point in time during the late 1990's. They were expensive to make, and not many people actually bought them, and were more interested in action games.
It was a dark time. I still kept buying adventure games, but one day I noticed that there simply weren't new adventure games in the stores. I had played adventure games passionately the entire 90s and now suddenly Sierra and LucasArts weren't making adventure games any more. I still occasionally played my old adventures, but for most part I just played strategy and roleplaying games. I'm happy that the genre has experienced a revival (although I think that most modern adventures have too easy puzzles and not enough Sierra logic).
Post edited September 13, 2015 by OlausPetrus
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Baggins: The unfortunate fact is even if Roberta had gone back and made The Princeless Bride 2, or a more traditional King's Quest game in the style of the older games, instead of the KQ8 we got, it still wouldn't have been marketable and would have been a failure. I.E. Grim Fandango's failure at huge sales (rumor has it even lost money).

Part of Roberta's legacy was she wanted to push technology with each of her games. A traditional KQ game just wouldn't have done that. Hence her move to 3D, perhaps a time when 3D was too limited to do what she wanted with it. She didn't have the engine she really wanted, that could handle most of her ideas (including swimming, water physics, wind physics, etc). Red Baron II the engine she wanted to utilize was behind schedule. Which put her game behind schedule. In the end they had to make their own engine which simply couldn't handle some of her more sophisticated ideas. So quite a bit of stuff had to be cut. Along with that possibly two worlds (the undersea world, and a fancier version of the sky realm, with outside areas).

It was Roberta's attempt to try to save a genre, that was a dead horse (already 'beaten' dead horse) at the time. It didn't work. But compared to the competition, in hindsight it was fairly admirable try.... The later Sierra Adventure games that came out later such as GK3 couldn't revive that horse either...
I was sorry to see them sell out their Sierra interests and leave the gaming biz (Roberta & what's-his-name...I always forget for some reason!) Although I'm sure I'd have taken the money and run, too, at the time--the IP & Sierra were still egregiously overvalued, imo, so it was a good time to sell. I'm the last person to ask about the specifics of the sale, though, really.

It's just that I've always reflected that both of them could have done so much better had they hung in there for another decade or two...the technology would have been so much more amenable to their initial visions--and they could have produced far better games. FMV is only now reaching the point where HD-quality graphics are the norm as opposed to the exception--1920x1080 is now the defacto standard for even lowly television these days.

But...they quit, sold out, bought a boat and proceeded to travel the globe last I heard of them--a truly enviable lifestyle, certainly. But still...I'd have rather they didn't quit as it seems they quit too early, imo. Phantasmagoria & sequel was a cool vision, imo--but simply attempted far too early for the technology of the day to do it justice. GK2, ditto. Today such games could reach fantastic potentials because the themes, scripts, games, and internal FMV clips could have captured exactly what Roberta intended originally. As it was, her great FMV ideas came out like a child trying to imitate Picasso with a crayon...;) Wasn't her fault at all--she was just too far ahead of the industry/tech.

I don't think Roberta was trying to "save a genre" at all--I think she was attempting to take newer technologies and incorporate them into her games, to make them more interesting to adults and to add another dimension to them--the "genre" is not in need of saving as children's fairly tales are in no danger of becoming unpopular. But let's face it, by the time KQ8 rolled around Roberta had done the story of fairy princes and princesses in magical kingdoms practically to death...;)

I wish they had stayed around...they might have really created some worthwhile games later on. But, like so many of the early, by-the-seat-of-our-pants computer game developers, they may have simply felt outclassed by the newer breed of developers beginning to make their own reputations and memorable products. Only they know the real answer to that supposition, I suppose.
Well they were being 'outsold/outclassed' by Action and RPG games being made by most companies at the time (some console stuff looked 'shinier' than what was being made on PC).

That's the reason why at the time video game companies stopped making adventure games, they just weren't profitable...

Of course now, they are making a come back, perhaps due to better technology, more efficient/cheaper methods, etc. "dumming down for the "casual market', and other methods.

Sierra made their 'attempt' to get into that similar market, and utilize some of the same technology. But it didn't really 'catch on' at the time.

Now Phantasmagoria despite its 'limitations' that game actually was one of Sierra's best selling games... So was GK2. So the 'technology' really didn't have much to do with it. Although perhaps the 'new technology' helped 'sell it'.

I'm probably in minority, but I think that KQ4 is best game of the series.

I also think that Mask of Eternity isn't as bad as people always claim it is. While I'm not huge action fan, the game is actually quite enjoyable. But the biggest issue I had with MoE was it's somewhat disappointing ending. I would have preferred a longer cutscene which explains what happened to Connor afterwards.

And when it comes to fan games, I'm not too happy about the changes to the canon which they make. I like that the stories are relatively independent and everything isn't connected with everything else.
That's the great thing about King's Quest, there is such a wide range of great games in the series, that anyone of them can be a favorite to someone else.

I'd have to agree that KQ4 is an excellent game. I don't usually have it towards the top of my favorite list mainly because I'm a Graham fan (sometimes I place Graham games above KQ6 because of that, its very close its hard to decide which I like better sometimes).

But I have a special place for KQ4 in my heart!

Frankly, the series fluctuates for me, sometimes I like some games more than others depending on my mood, and 'what I want to play'. The only one I know for sure that I don't tend to ever replay much is KQ7. I just don't find it to be that fun... The style and characterizations never grew on me.

I absolutely agree that KQ8's ending is unfortunately anti-climactic. It builds up such an interesting story, one of the deepest in the series IMO. But the ending just leaves you going 'huh'? So what happened to Connor? Did he meet Graham? Did he remain a guardian of 'heaven'?

It was a dark time. I still kept buying adventure games, but one day I noticed that there simply weren't new adventure games in the stores. I had played adventure games passionately the entire 90s and now suddenly Sierra and LucasArts weren't making adventure games any more. I still occasionally played my old adventures, but for most part I just played strategy and roleplaying games. I'm happy that the genre has experienced a revival (although I think that most modern adventures have too easy puzzles and not enough Sierra logic).
At least where I was living, stores wouldn't even carry adventure games, and were phasing out carrying PC games at all... for the most part. You could still preorder them, and they'd be at the store, but game stores wouldn't normally have them, nor would they advertise them anymore. So the games kinda got lost, among the much fancier console marketing.
Post edited October 01, 2015 by Baggins
It's the best game in the series since the 6th one. That much is for sure.
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Baggins: ...
At least where I was living, stores wouldn't even carry adventure games, and were phasing out carrying PC games at all... for the most part. You could still preorder them, and they'd be at the store, but game stores wouldn't normally have them, nor would they advertise them anymore. So the games kinda got lost, among the much fancier console marketing.
I think what is different today is the size of the market--it's gigantic compared to what it was then--and gaming consoles have been absorbed by the same x86 hardware standards that comprise the PC marketplace. Of course, there are umpteen millions more PCs in circulation than there are gaming consoles, but the PC market is not the market for games that the console market is, because PC gamers are much more discriminating (because they can be), whereas console gamers have to buy the games released at whatever price is asked because otherwise their consoles are useless. Still, the slice of the PC market housing gamers is quite a bit larger today than it was then. So it makes all the sense in the world to come back in with *quality* adventure games. My two cents, anyway...;)
Then again, that market, as huge as it may be, is also wildly divergent in its tastes. If they were to make triple A adventure games, you can bet they'd dumb it down to the lowest common denominator and focus on story over gameplay to rake in as much players as possible, kinda like how Telltale has been doing. Gameplay wise it would be nowhere as similar as the games we grew up with.

Personally, I don't really care about that so called resurrection of the adventure game genre. There were tons of high quality small budget or indie adventure games produced in the last decade: great games that compromised neither plot nor gameplay. I'd rather play these games over any triple A adventure game that'd just screw up the gameplay, or in case of potential sequels to older game, screw up the plot or atmosphere because newer devs are oblivious to the subtleties of the older games. And if you're in favor of the resurrection because you want to see sequels to your favorite game from the olden days, well, there are some remakes and sequels (unofficial and/or spiritual) included in these small budget or indie titles. It's really just a matter of looking for them.
Surprisingly it seems "visual novels" are becoming relatively popular again (always been popular in Japan), there are quite a few being released, or have been released in Vita, 3DS/DS, and PC in recent years. They are basically the older sibling to adventure games, but much simplified down to the story, and fewer actions/puzzles.