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NamelessFragger: Why are people so resistant to buying joysticks now? No wonder simulations have fallen off the map in favor of other genres that play just fine with only KB+M. People can't be bothered to get the proper tool for the job anymore, so to speak.
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Desjay: That's a nice example of a Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, which is why your argument is completely wrong.
What? Explain yourself. NOW. Not everyone's fluent in Latin, and if you're going to say that one's argument is "completely wrong", you had better back it up.

I'll admit, in retrospect, that came off very harsh and possibly even condescending, but I must've felt a little pissed when reading about things like designing space fighters with strictly KB+M controls as if that's the ONLY interface PC games of any sort should ever use and flight sticks should have never existed. (It probably stems a bit from DarkStar One, which does support joystick input, but to a very limited extent; it's clearly designed for KB+M with the way some interface aspects such as targeting work.)
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NamelessFragger: What? Explain yourself. NOW. Not everyone's fluent in Latin, and if you're going to say that one's argument is "completely wrong", you had better back it up.

I'll admit, in retrospect, that came off very harsh and possibly even condescending, but I must've felt a little pissed when reading about things like designing space fighters with strictly KB+M controls as if that's the ONLY interface PC games of any sort should ever use and flight sticks should have never existed. (It probably stems a bit from DarkStar One, which does support joystick input, but to a very limited extent; it's clearly designed for KB+M with the way some interface aspects such as targeting work.)
"after this, therefore because of this," is a logical fallacy that states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one."

So your arguments is that Flight Simulators/Space Games etc fell out of the market all because people stopped buying joysticks.

I didn't see where anybody was asking anybody to make a space/flight simulator that only used Keyboard + Mouse, people were talking about the option of having keyboard + mouse control in addition to the usual joystick control option (which doesn't affect you at all, because the joystick option would still be there), so why you got all angry about something that wasn't even brought up is questionable.
Nobody here said "I want space/flight simulators to only have keyboard + mouse control"

If anything, I would think that some games 'cut their own throats' so to speak, by REQUIRING a joystick, and only having the option of playing with a joystick, people would rather buy a joystick because they want one, not because it's a requirement to play a game.

I've done it that way myself, I've tried a flight/space game with keyboard + Mouse because it was at least an option but later decided I'd like to play it with a joystick instead, so I went out and bought one.
The point being, I had an option to play the game without a joystick, and later found I would like to play it with a joystick, which was much better than not being able to play it at all unless I bought a joystick.

I doubt people would be willing to plunk down $60 for a game and be told, "by the way, you need to plunk down another $20-$299 for a joystick to play this game properly"
Personally I'd go put the game back.

I agree with you on Darkstar One, the decision to not fully support a joystick is pretty dumb.
Another "Stupid Game" award goes to the Rcing game called "Fuel" it supports a game controller, but doesn't support a steering wheel.....a racing game that doesn't support a steering wheel and pedals? pretty dumb if you ask me.
It would have been much better if I-War 2 had released with optimised mouse flight controls in my opinion.

By the time I-War 2 was released the market was changing, and requiring a joystick to play a game properly was becoming less acceptable.

I can play a modern port of Descent using mouse flight controls and it works really well, so I don't see why it couldn't have been done well in I-War 2. Oh well..
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Ravenger: It would have been much better if I-War 2 had released with optimised mouse flight controls in my opinion.

By the time I-War 2 was released the market was changing, and requiring a joystick to play a game properly was becoming less acceptable.

I can play a modern port of Descent using mouse flight controls and it works really well, so I don't see why it couldn't have been done well in I-War 2. Oh well..
I've been thinking about controllers with respect to space/flight sims and actually a trackpad might be able to mimic a joystick pretty well. Trackpads have the same ability to define both relative and absolute position as joysticks. With multi-touch trackpads you might be able to even define more complex gestures to relay commands even a joystick would not be able to handle well. On the other hand, even regardless of force feedback there is a physical interaction with the joystick absent in the trackpad. So I'm not saying it would necessarily be a better experience than a joystick, but it might be fun to play around with it and find out. :)
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NamelessFragger: What? Explain yourself. NOW. Not everyone's fluent in Latin, and if you're going to say that one's argument is "completely wrong", you had better back it up.

I'll admit, in retrospect, that came off very harsh and possibly even condescending, but I must've felt a little pissed when reading about things like designing space fighters with strictly KB+M controls as if that's the ONLY interface PC games of any sort should ever use and flight sticks should have never existed. (It probably stems a bit from DarkStar One, which does support joystick input, but to a very limited extent; it's clearly designed for KB+M with the way some interface aspects such as targeting work.)
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Desjay: "after this, therefore because of this," is a logical fallacy that states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one."

So your arguments is that Flight Simulators/Space Games etc fell out of the market all because people stopped buying joysticks.

I didn't see where anybody was asking anybody to make a space/flight simulator that only used Keyboard + Mouse, people were talking about the option of having keyboard + mouse control in addition to the usual joystick control option (which doesn't affect you at all, because the joystick option would still be there), so why you got all angry about something that wasn't even brought up is questionable.
Nobody here said "I want space/flight simulators to only have keyboard + mouse control"

If anything, I would think that some games 'cut their own throats' so to speak, by REQUIRING a joystick, and only having the option of playing with a joystick, people would rather buy a joystick because they want one, not because it's a requirement to play a game.

I've done it that way myself, I've tried a flight/space game with keyboard + Mouse because it was at least an option but later decided I'd like to play it with a joystick instead, so I went out and bought one.

The point being, I had an option to play the game without a joystick, and later found I would like to play it with a joystick, which was much better than not being able to play it at all unless I bought a joystick.

I doubt people would be willing to plunk down $60 for a game and be told, "by the way, you need to plunk down another $20-$299 for a joystick to play this game properly"
Personally I'd go put the game back.

I agree with you on Darkstar One, the decision to not fully support a joystick is pretty dumb.
Another "Stupid Game" award goes to the Rcing game called "Fuel" it supports a game controller, but doesn't support a steering wheel.....a racing game that doesn't support a steering wheel and pedals? pretty dumb if you ask me.
Oh, okay. Point taken.

Looking through this thread, I can't seem to find the post I was referring to earlier (the one about the guy being so pissed about lack of KB+M controls and insisting that he'd design a spacecraft with KB+M controls), but it's somewhere here on the GOG forums, that much is certain. Reading it made me rather upset (since he was talking as if there's no place for flight sticks at all in games like this), and when one's mind's emotionally clouded like that, rationality goes out the window.

Anyway, I think that with a little interface revisioning, something like I-War 2 could accommodate KB+M controls reasonably well. (DS1's KB+M controls were pretty good, after all, albeit largely at the expense of flight stick support.) If the Evochron series can pull it off with both types of control schemes, certainly everyone else can.
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Stiler: Sorry for the bump, but trying to use the mouse for controls and when I use the ini the ship is just constantly going down, I can only get it to stop if I frantically drag my mouse up and up and up over and over, as soon as I stop my ship starts spinning downward again.

Anyone have this problem?

I'd really just like to get it setup where I can use the mouse to control the direction of the ship and W/S/A/D to control strafe left/right and thrust/reverse.
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esopose: Change this:

[icPlayerPilot.Yaw]
Mouse, MouseABsXAxis

[icPlayerPilot.Pitch]
Mouse, MouseAbsYAxis

To this:

[icPlayerPilot.Yaw]
Mouse, MouseXAxis

[icPlayerPilot.Pitch]
Mouse, MouseYAxis

That worked for me. I also added this to enhance the control options:

[icPlayerPilot.Roll]
Keyboard, D, ALT
Keyboard, A, ALT, inverse

[icPlayerPilot.LateralY]
Keyboard, W, SHIFT
Keyboard, S, SHIFT, inverse

The first allows you to roll sideways. I find it better than using the default modifier key while moving the mouse. Just press ALT+D or A.
The second allows you to slide vertically by pressing SHIFT+W or S.

Hope this helps.
Sorry to necro an old thread, but when I modified the mousecfg.ini file to what you specified, the game just crashes every time I click "start new game". If I remove the mouse.ini file, the game loads normally but then, of course, the mouse doesn't work. If possible, could you upload your .ini file?

EDIT: Tried it again. Downloaded ravengers original file, ran the game. Game loaded fine, but the ship was constantly moving down and have to frantically move the mouse up constantly to get the ship to stop (unplayable basically). Went back and added the EXACT modifications as you suggested again, but same thing as before happened. Clicked start new game, and game crashed with error message. I don't know what else to do.

EDIT 2: I got it to work ONLY ON THE FIRST LOAD. After I exit the game, and then get back into it, the game crashes after loading the mission again. It's like it's a demo, letting me sample the controls, but once I leave game and then reload it, it screws up.

EDIT 3: It appears that running the game in compatibility mode for Windows XP + Admin mode fixed the problem so far.
Post edited July 20, 2011 by xclavex
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xclavex: EDIT 3: It appears that running the game in compatibility mode for Windows XP + Admin mode fixed the problem so far.
Glad you sorted it out.
I only tried that game with those tweaks on Windows XP so far. It worked for me flawlessly.
Thank you very much, the mouse.ini file finally made the game playable for me too :).
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Stiler: Sorry for the bump, but trying to use the mouse for controls and when I use the ini the ship is just constantly going down, I can only get it to stop if I frantically drag my mouse up and up and up over and over, as soon as I stop my ship starts spinning downward again.

Anyone have this problem?

I'd really just like to get it setup where I can use the mouse to control the direction of the ship and W/S/A/D to control strafe left/right and thrust/reverse.
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esopose: Change this:

[icPlayerPilot.Yaw]
Mouse, MouseABsXAxis

[icPlayerPilot.Pitch]
Mouse, MouseAbsYAxis

To this:

[icPlayerPilot.Yaw]
Mouse, MouseXAxis

[icPlayerPilot.Pitch]
Mouse, MouseYAxis

That worked for me. I also added this to enhance the control options:

[icPlayerPilot.Roll]
Keyboard, D, ALT
Keyboard, A, ALT, inverse

[icPlayerPilot.LateralY]
Keyboard, W, SHIFT
Keyboard, S, SHIFT, inverse

The first allows you to roll sideways. I find it better than using the default modifier key while moving the mouse. Just press ALT+D or A.
The second allows you to slide vertically by pressing SHIFT+W or S.

Hope this helps.
I can confirm this works for me, cheers dude!

Also, I forgot how much I loved this game, together with Freespace 2 these two games made my childhood!
Post edited December 14, 2011 by Cryoarc
Typing about controls isn't if funny that keyboard, a joystick and a PS3 controller can work on this game but a XBOX 360 controller cannot.
Idealy, it would be nice if the game natively supported KB&M - but personally, I couldn't imagine playing a space and/or flight sim with anything other than a Flightstick/Joystick or HOTAS. I wouldn't even bother with KB&M - just not the same.

Same as I would never play a racing sim with anything other than a good Wheel & Pedals. iRacing for instance (the best modern racing simulator) "requires" a wheel and pedals, you can't play without.

Of course I'm talking about games that lean more heavily to the simulator side of things (like I-War).
Two and a half years later....

Thanks for the awesome MOUSE.INI and the tipps to enhance its controls! Now the game is much more playable to me.

But I have a Question, that will probably never get answered:

Is it possible to set the Mouse Wheel for Key Bindings? I want to Scroll Up for prev Contact & Scroll Down for Next Contact :)

That would be awesome. I'll experiment myself a bit. If I can find a solution I will post it.
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wlnharo: Two and a half years later....

Thanks for the awesome MOUSE.INI and the tipps to enhance its controls! Now the game is much more playable to me.

But I have a Question, that will probably never get answered:

Is it possible to set the Mouse Wheel for Key Bindings? I want to Scroll Up for prev Contact & Scroll Down for Next Contact :)

That would be awesome. I'll experiment myself a bit. If I can find a solution I will post it.
Hi,
I tried with EOC_KeyBinder but without possitive effect.
I think this isn't possible bcoz, in those times, mouses with wheel started to be in use, so devs probably not implements those features. I hope I'm wrong...
Post edited July 28, 2014 by TomeG
Hi. I'm trying to download the mouse files both from Revenger and zaretina, but none of them works. Can anyone drop a valid link again? I want to play this fantastic game all again (thirteen years after) trying to experience mouse+keyboard config...

Thanks!
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jcgea: Hi. I'm trying to download the mouse files both from Revenger and zaretina, but none of them works. Can anyone drop a valid link again? I want to play this fantastic game all again (thirteen years after) trying to experience mouse+keyboard config...

Thanks!
You are aware that Ravenger's mouseini.jpg is the mouse.ini renamed to mouseini.jpg because GOG's forum software can't attach the files otherwise. The same goes for zaretina's mouse.jpg. Just d/l the file and rename it.