Yep, I already figured that out earlier, which is why I had to move around a lot of attribute points. Had started out with dumping charisma to 3. Why does he need 17 anyway? I thought it was 15. Is 15 only for the first class then? But you need 17 for the main attribute in the class you want to dual into? If so, why charisma? Druids are priests, so I thought it was wisdom, which is why I upped that.

The bloke looks like this now, which I hope is FINALLY fine (it should be, as I've tried to dual him in-game for a test).

Brandon
Human Fighter (dual to Druid at level 3)
15 str
16 dex
16 con
3 int
18 wis
17 cha
True Neutral (another one I messed up initially)

** Large swords (scimitars)
** Slings

I've become less sure about dualling the to-be-Mage at level 7 though. Maybe it's better to just dual this bloke at 3 too, and start getting some arcane magic levels built up? He'll probably mostly be using magic anyway, so the extra half attack may not do that much for him. The extra HP would obviously be great, though.

Speaking of, it always frustrates me that not that table is included in the manual. I can never quite remember what is the benefit at the various levels in terms of attacks and proficiencies, and it's not that easy to find online either.

However, for fighters it should be added proficiency at level 3, one more at level 6, half attack at 7, and yet another proficiency (for grand mastery) at level 9. Right? Which makes the typical dual point at 3, 7 or 9.

Edit: This is probably the best place I've found, but this isn't correct for IWD, I think, as I've heard grand mastery isn't nerfed in that game, like it was in BG.
[url=http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur%27s_Gate:_Progression_Charts]http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur%27s_Gate:_Progression_Charts[/url]

Yeah, the rules are a bit screwy (I personally find that's aprt of the charm of the old AD&D rule set though). But yes, 17 in the prime attributes of the class you want to dual into. Why CHA for a Druid? I can't remember the exact explanation but it has something to do with their affinity for animals and nature in the PnP rules, if memory serves.

I like the 2nd edition rules over the new ones too. It's one reason why I never managed to get through IWD2, though I'll try again one day. Everything just becomes so bland. Same with NWN2. Got pretty far in that, though, but at some point I was just bored playing, and stopped loading up the game.

Damnit, Planet Baldur's Gate is down? Dead? That's a real shame. That is probably why I couldn't locate the good tables actually, as I used to find good stuff before. A real shame if that resource is lost. Nobody have saved the material either?

I've read that GameFAQ before, and it was pretty good IIRC, but don't think there were tables like that. Besides, I find the gamefaqs a bit of a pain to read, especially the long ones, as it's just old-fashioned text with no links or anything like that. Mike's RPG Center is pretty good for weapons info and things like that, but he has no tables there. This stuff should really have been in the manuals, but alas, it's not.

---

Anyway, have just dualled the fighter into a Druid, which went well (wipes sweat). Will now see if I find any suggestions on when to dual a fighter into a mage, whether level 3 or 7 makes most sense. I can't recall how much XP there is in the game, but with all on normal settings, I don't want to wait until the end game before the fighter class is back. Not sure I can be bothered to trudge through HoW again either. It wasn't all that much fun in all honesty, especially the Luremaster.

Level 7 is fine for dualling to mage. You'll still have plenty of game to go when you get your Fighter abilities back. And you'll gain the first few mage level really fast. Really it depends on how you want to play that FTR/Mage character. If you're leaning towards a spellsword type, then definitely wait until level 7 since you get the extra proficiency and half attack (and if you're lucky enough to find the Elven Chain, you'll be rocking). Neither of those are really useful for a spellchucker. If you're just looking for a little more oomph so your mage isn't so fragile with maybe using them as a combat type only once in a while, then level 3 makes more sense.

*edit* Yeah, Planet Baldur's Gate was run by Gamespy, as I understand it, and when GS was shut down, PBG went with it. I used PBG a lot. Sad to see it go. And I don't think any of it was saved, as it took everyone by surprise when it was shut down. Shame, as I found it the best of all the resources I looked at (Mike's, Sorcerer's Place, Gamebanshee, etc.)

A Spellsword is just a melee fighter with arcane abilities -- think arcane warrior. The biggest problem is being restricted from casting while wearing armour. To this end, you should plan his spell book along the lines of long term buffs that can be cast before battle -- no good removing your armour to cast a spell while you're being pounded into the ground -- until you can find Elven Chain, that allows for spell casting.

Hickory pretty much covered it: buffs and long-term effects. If you get Elven Chain, you can cast while wearing it, which makes you much more versatile (you can then cast protections on yourself and then toss area effect spells at your feet).

Thanks guys, sounds good. So buff up with long-lasting spells, put armour back on, crack heads.

I hope my memory isn't playing tricks on me though. It's much more of a grind than I recall. The valley of shadows at least has been a horrible trudge. Hopefully I get more into it as we go further.

Just did a quick test with a Fighter and DaleKeeper, to check the various benefits according to proficiency and level. Could only check THAC0 and number of attacks though. +Damage could be checked with actual attacks I suppose, but speed can't be checked, although it doesn't really matter much I suppose.

The bottom table from [url=http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur%27s_Gate:_Progression_Charts]Playithardcore[/url] looks to be correct, which should then be the same as vanilla BG. The top table is also correct, for number of attacks based on levels.

This is bound to come out crap, but...

Proficiency
----------------------------------
0 - 21 thac0 - 1 attack
1 - 19 thac0 - 1 attack
2 - 18 thac0 - 1.5 attacks
3 - 16 thac0 - 1.5 attacks
4 - 16 thac0 - 1.5 attacks
5 - 16 thac0 - 2.5 attacks

Levels affect fighters as per the top table. -1 thac0 for every level. +0.5 attacks at level 7 and +0.5 attacks at level 13.

Saving throws obviously change too, and I can certainly see why many prefer to dual fighters at level 9. Not only do their HP stop increasing a lot at level 9, but they get an additional proficiency, making grand mastery possible, and saving throws drop by 2-3.

Maybe this is all common knowledge to some, but it was nice to get it confirmed for me. Grand Mastery is obviously very powerful in Icewind Dale, at least compared to BG2/Tutu.

Just so you know, IWD can be completed without casting a single spell. In one playthrough, I only used potions for my buffs and it was easier than I thought. There were a few areas which were tricky but using the potion of explosions in those cases got me through. The party was 5 pure fighters and a fighter thief.