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Icewind Dale seriesIWD2 compared to IWD(22 posts)(22 posts)
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Posted June 23, 2015
I want to get this game but I want to know how it compares to the first
Posted June 23, 2015
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thebackwardsn: I want to get this game but I want to know how it compares to the first
One major difference is the ruleset. Icewind Dale 1 is sort of based off the AD&D 2nd edition ruleset. (I say "sort of" because it's real time with pause, temporary hit points work differently, and some rules (like non-weapon proficiencies) aren't implemented).

Icewind Dale 2, however, is similarly based off the D&D 3rd edition ruleset. It doesn't completely implement it (no attacks of opportunity), but it does implement a few rules that the first game didn't implement the 2nd edition counterparts of (skill system, minimum stat for casting spells, specialist bonus spells must be used for that skill). It is still real-time with pause.
Posted June 23, 2015
The overall gameplay feeling is the same as in the first part, it still uses a (slightly modernized version of) the infinity engine. It's about as good, maybe even a little better, as the first in my personal opinion.
Post edited June 23, 2015 by kmonster
Posted June 23, 2015
In addition to what dtgreene and kmonster said, IWD2 is also quite a bit harder in the beginning. There are a lot of missile troops and your spellcasters summons won't be able to hold them off for long. Once your meager amount of summons are gone, they start pegging your guys which at this time in the game, are still very weak.

Also, not sure what spell loadouts you like in IWD1 but it's likely you'll be using different spells in IWD2. Enchantment magic is very useful in IWD2 (whereas it was borderline useless in IWD1). Summoning spells in IWD2 aren't as great as they are in IWD1. For instance, in IWD2, animate dead will really be all you need, other summoning spells aren't anywhere near as powerful.

With regards to certain classes, I found it more efficient to multi-class clerics, druids, non specialist wizards and thieves than keep them single class in IWD1 (though kmonster disagrees with me on multiclassing clerics). In IWD2 (for non HOF mode games), the choice for keeping a pure class divine caster or mixing in levels from other classes) isn't a clear cut decision. There is a lot more flexibility in how you create your characters which IMO is one of IWD2's greatest strengths.

I also like druid more in IWD2 than IWD1 but that's just my opinion.

Still, if you liked IWD1, it's very likely you'll enjoy IWD2. However, there will be a learning curve and it's quite likely your first party will be kinda crappy ;). It's likely you'll mess up stat points or pick crappy feats. I'm pretty sure we all did this in our first IWD2 playthrough :P
Posted June 28, 2015
The way I see it, whether you should get IWD2 depends also on what you enjoy about these games. Is it the story, the tactics, coming up with original characters or trying to beat the game?


Personally, I greatly prefer Icewind Dale over it's successor.
That's not to say that IWD2 is awful or that I didn't enjoy it at all. However, the part that I enjoyed the most about the first game was that it oozed atmosphere and style.
As far as I'm concerned, IWD2 is seriously lacking in that regard, though I find it hard to pinpoint to the exact reason.

Part of it is that there are a lot more weird puzzles/labyrinths in IWD2 (fellwood, ice temple, dragon's eye, eight chambers...) than in IWD.
Besides being prone to bugs that make them not work as intended, they often they feel a bit off to me - like the designers put them there because they wanted to put a puzzle there, not because they make sense from a world-building perspective.
Areas in general are often crowded with encounters, sometimes too random and/or disjoined from the others and also sometimes quite surreal.
("Surreal" is not something that I expected from the successor to Icewind Dale, a game that features some of my favorite rpg locations.
This I attribute partly to the designers trying to make the game more up-to-date, gameplay-wise, by including elements like manipulable objects; however the Infinity Engine is just not up for these)
In addition to that, I found that IWD2 focuses even more on tactics and huge battles than IWD. Sometimes this, too, is done at the expense of immersive area and encounter designs (see "crowded areas above").
Of course, that's just my preference; lots of others aren't bothered by this at all! :)

The game also features some game mechanics and elements ("battle squares") that encourage certain play styles.
For example, the experience system awards experience points for defeating an encounter based on the difference between the creatures' level and the average character level of your group. That means it can pay to not level up a character, since it nets your group more experience points...stuff like that.


Bottom line:
If you play these games for their tactical depth, because you like to employ different strategies for overcoming difficult battles and because you like to come up with efficient character builds, get Icewind Dale 2!

However, if you enjoyed Icewind Dale mainly for it's atmosphere and story, I can't really recommend it's successor.

Hope this helps! :)
Posted September 04, 2015
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thebackwardsn: I want to get this game but I want to know how it compares to the first
IWD2 is great. The third edition stuff adds different layers of complexity, allowing for different kinds of tactics. What I love about IWD2 is that you shouldn't drain one stat to it's minimum to put into another one because they all count. If your fighters have low intelligence and wisdom, they'll become vulnerable to control based spells. Having an intelligence based fighter is certainly viable. You get more points to distribute which makes him more skilled than a strength, dex, or constitution fighter.

The only thing I don't like about IWD2 is that it doesn't have any expansions. Because of that IWD1 is a little bigger when it comes to exploration.
Posted September 05, 2015
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Gule: The way I see it, whether you should get IWD2 depends also on what you enjoy about these games. Is it the story, the tactics, coming up with original characters or trying to beat the game?

Personally, I greatly prefer Icewind Dale over it's successor.
That's not to say that IWD2 is awful or that I didn't enjoy it at all. However, the part that I enjoyed the most about the first game was that it oozed atmosphere and style.
As far as I'm concerned, IWD2 is seriously lacking in that regard, though I find it hard to pinpoint to the exact reason.

Part of it is that there are a lot more weird puzzles/labyrinths in IWD2 (fellwood, ice temple, dragon's eye, eight chambers...) than in IWD.
Besides being prone to bugs that make them not work as intended, they often they feel a bit off to me - like the designers put them there because they wanted to put a puzzle there, not because they make sense from a world-building perspective.
Areas in general are often crowded with encounters, sometimes too random and/or disjoined from the others and also sometimes quite surreal.
("Surreal" is not something that I expected from the successor to Icewind Dale, a game that features some of my favorite rpg locations.
This I attribute partly to the designers trying to make the game more up-to-date, gameplay-wise, by including elements like manipulable objects; however the Infinity Engine is just not up for these)
In addition to that, I found that IWD2 focuses even more on tactics and huge battles than IWD. Sometimes this, too, is done at the expense of immersive area and encounter designs (see "crowded areas above").
Of course, that's just my preference; lots of others aren't bothered by this at all! :)

The game also features some game mechanics and elements ("battle squares") that encourage certain play styles.
For example, the experience system awards experience points for defeating an encounter based on the difference between the creatures' level and the average character level of your group. That means it can pay to not level up a character, since it nets your group more experience points...stuff like that.

Bottom line:
If you play these games for their tactical depth, because you like to employ different strategies for overcoming difficult battles and because you like to come up with efficient character builds, get Icewind Dale 2!

However, if you enjoyed Icewind Dale mainly for it's atmosphere and story, I can't really recommend it's successor.

Hope this helps! :)
Could not agree more. I played through both many times. But I think IWD 1 was more immersive and the plot played more important role. Somehow in IWD2 I get so caught up clearing hundreds of monsters of solving puzzles that I stop caring about advancing the plot and only try to go to the next map. And yes, IWD2 is more tactical than IWD1 and more challenging, especially initially. Later on you can plough through enemies easily in both. Even at the Heart of Fury.

I also feel that IWD2's plot is pretty weak. But that's just my personal opinion.
Posted September 05, 2015
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Lebesgue: Could not agree more. I played through both many times. But I think IWD 1 was more immersive and the plot played more important role. Somehow in IWD2 I get so caught up clearing hundreds of monsters of solving puzzles that I stop caring about advancing the plot and only try to go to the next map.
That's what IWD 1/2 are about ;) Who needs plot, we need more monsters and loot :)
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Lebesgue: And yes, IWD2 is more tactical than IWD1 and more challenging, especially initially. Later on you can plough through enemies easily in both. Even at the Heart of Fury.
I found IWD 1 to be harder actually. That one cave with Ogre and several other monsters, I had to be inventive and kite them all around the cave, killing them along the way, and taking rest outside (ogre kept camping me right at the entrance... with random one-shots after loading screen). All your characters are Lv.1 at this point, each of them could die from 1 hit from those monsters.

IWD 2 had MUCH smoother start.
Posted September 06, 2015
IWD2's fights are much more brutal and non stop than IWD1's.
Posted September 06, 2015
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Lebesgue: Could not agree more. I played through both many times. But I think IWD 1 was more immersive and the plot played more important role. Somehow in IWD2 I get so caught up clearing hundreds of monsters of solving puzzles that I stop caring about advancing the plot and only try to go to the next map.
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Sarisio: That's what IWD 1/2 are about ;) Who needs plot, we need more monsters and loot :)
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Lebesgue: And yes, IWD2 is more tactical than IWD1 and more challenging, especially initially. Later on you can plough through enemies easily in both. Even at the Heart of Fury.
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Sarisio: I found IWD 1 to be harder actually. That one cave with Ogre and several other monsters, I had to be inventive and kite them all around the cave, killing them along the way, and taking rest outside (ogre kept camping me right at the entrance... with random one-shots after loading screen). All your characters are Lv.1 at this point, each of them could die from 1 hit from those monsters.

IWD 2 had MUCH smoother start.
In IWD 1, if you do quests around Easthaven, you can get at least some of your characters to level up before the first cave. If you set the difficulty to Easy (Story in the EE) or Insane before handing in a quest, you can get double the experience, making it easier to hit level 2 before the first dungeon, which makes things much easier. (Careful: on Insane you take double damage.)
Posted September 06, 2015
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dtgreene: In IWD 1, if you do quests around Easthaven, you can get at least some of your characters to level up before the first cave. If you set the difficulty to Easy (Story in the EE) or Insane before handing in a quest, you can get double the experience, making it easier to hit level 2 before the first dungeon, which makes things much easier. (Careful: on Insane you take double damage.)
The way it is intended to be played (medium difficulty), characters are still Lv. 1 in Ogre cave. I know there are exploits with Beetles (who don't attack back iirc) and such, but exploits don't count. Problem with BG1/IWD1, there are relatively WAY too high enemy encounters in starting areas.

Ogre is basically Lv.7 creature with several Lv.3 helpers. It screams "Lv.3 Encounter" to me, not Lv.1... So I can see people exploiting starting cave this or other way (I usually kite if everything else fails, which is also exploit for this kind of games).
Posted September 06, 2015
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dtgreene: In IWD 1, if you do quests around Easthaven, you can get at least some of your characters to level up before the first cave. If you set the difficulty to Easy (Story in the EE) or Insane before handing in a quest, you can get double the experience, making it easier to hit level 2 before the first dungeon, which makes things much easier. (Careful: on Insane you take double damage.)
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Sarisio: The way it is intended to be played (medium difficulty), characters are still Lv. 1 in Ogre cave. I know there are exploits with Beetles (who don't attack back iirc) and such, but exploits don't count. Problem with BG1/IWD1, there are relatively WAY too high enemy encounters in starting areas.

Ogre is basically Lv.7 creature with several Lv.3 helpers. It screams "Lv.3 Encounter" to me, not Lv.1... So I can see people exploiting starting cave this or other way (I usually kite if everything else fails, which is also exploit for this kind of games).
There are some strategies involving aoe spells, of course. I mean, you can give a wizard the "Sleep" spell or Entangle for druids. Cleric have the "Command" Spell which could disable that pesky ogre as well. Wizards, Clerics and Druids are still part of the "canon" d&d party, so if you don't realize that or just don't use those classes, you're going for a different kind of challenge.... or perhaps just a layer 8 error.
Posted September 07, 2015
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javier0889: There are some strategies involving aoe spells, of course. I mean, you can give a wizard the "Sleep" spell or Entangle for druids. Cleric have the "Command" Spell which could disable that pesky ogre as well. Wizards, Clerics and Druids are still part of the "canon" d&d party, so if you don't realize that or just don't use those classes, you're going for a different kind of challenge.... or perhaps just a layer 8 error.
Problem is that casters can cast 1 and only spell, and controlling spells won't last long at all. And Ogre isn't alone, he comes with several helpers, which are all linked (can't pull 1 by 1). Any form of crowd control will last for like 1 tun? Not enough to to kill ogre or dispatch his helpers. I tried that cave like 20+ times before decided just to kite and nuke from the entrance. Other people use Kiting+Archery, some use beetle exploit to gain 2nd level, etc.

Lv . 1 party should face Kobolds and Orc as boss. Not Orcs and Ogre as boss. And surprisingly enough, game becomes much easier after that cave, at least until Yxunomei.

IWD1 is definitely on my replay list though. Last time i didn't finish it properly because of market saturation effect in game (the more you sell same kind of item, the cheaper it becomes). Next playthrough I won't be selling anything until I will really need to. Btw, are containers safe for storage in this game or do they reset eventually?
Posted September 07, 2015
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Sarisio: ...Btw, are containers safe for storage in this game or do they reset eventually?
Yes, they're safe and do not reset. Just don't use Easthaven's, since that's the only place in the game you can't get back to once you head to Kuldahar.
Posted September 08, 2015
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dtgreene: In IWD 1, if you do quests around Easthaven, you can get at least some of your characters to level up before the first cave. If you set the difficulty to Easy (Story in the EE) or Insane before handing in a quest, you can get double the experience, making it easier to hit level 2 before the first dungeon, which makes things much easier. (Careful: on Insane you take double damage.)
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Sarisio: The way it is intended to be played (medium difficulty), characters are still Lv. 1 in Ogre cave. I know there are exploits with Beetles (who don't attack back iirc) and such, but exploits don't count. Problem with BG1/IWD1, there are relatively WAY too high enemy encounters in starting areas.

Ogre is basically Lv.7 creature with several Lv.3 helpers. It screams "Lv.3 Encounter" to me, not Lv.1... So I can see people exploiting starting cave this or other way (I usually kite if everything else fails, which is also exploit for this kind of games).
I finished IWD1 several times with a fresh party each time and never remember to have any problems with that cave. I think there were couple of tough fights in the vale of shadows or the lowest level of Dragon's Eye before you got really good kit and before you reached high levels. Of course it depends on the party you have. My was always pretty warrior+archers heavy. Did not bother much with magic in IWD1 expect for support. IWD2 is a different story. Also, remember to use all the potions you have. They can make all the difference.

But you should definitely replay it. And when you accumulate stuff it is good to give it all identical items to one person. The first time you sell the item (say Long Sword +1) it does not matter how many of them you sell (can be 5), you get the same high price. Later in the game you will have so many items anyway that you stop worrying about it that much. You can easily finish the game having 100,000+ gp.
Post edited September 08, 2015 by Lebesgue
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Icewind Dale seriesIWD2 compared to IWD(22 posts)(22 posts)
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