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Icewind Dale seriesIWD2 classes after level 20?(9 posts)solved(9 posts)solved
(9 posts)solved
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Posted September 05, 2015
So I read that in this game, spellcasting progresses either very slowly or not at all past level 20. I have beaten the game not too long ago and got to delve a bit into Heart of Fury mode before I loss use of my original GoG copy (Thanks a lot Windows 8.1!!!!). I don't know how melee classes or classes with limited spellcasting like paladins, rangers or bards are affected, so here's my question: Is there any point in any class going beyond level 20? Here's the party I intend to have, X meaning the class I intend to mainly keep them with levels in.

Altredus (LG Male Aasimar Paladin of Ilmater X/Painbearer of Ilmater 1) (Don't know how I want to divvy up Paladin and Cleric levels)

Galuf (NG Male Shield Dwarf Fighter X) (may possibly multiclass as a class like Rogue or Ranger)

Balrug (CG Male Half-Orc Barbarian X) (May give levels in Ranger or Fighter)

Lumia (LG Female Human Morninglord of Lathander X) (May give her levels in Fighter or Sorcerer)

Fenris (NG Male Human Rogue 12/Bard X) (Mostly for the use of Use Magic Device to utilize a lot of different scrolls, wands, and what-not as well as bardic instruments. Might instead keep him as full-blown rogue for Sneak Attack power.)

Ymira (CG Female Human Wizard X) (May give her Fighter and/or Rogue levels after 20 to enhance her combat or stealth capabilities.)

Like I was saying, is there any point in keeping these characters in their main class past level 20 or no?
This question / problem has been solved by AurelianDragonimage
Posted September 05, 2015
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powerhouse5000: Like I was saying, is there any point in keeping these characters in their main class past level 20 or no?
Characters above level 20 are classed as 'Epic', and have access to epic feats and traits. Above level 30 is where D&D has problems, and therefore not worth it.
Posted September 05, 2015
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Hickory: Characters above level 20 are classed as 'Epic', and have access to epic feats and traits. Above level 30 is where D&D has problems, and therefore not worth it.
Not in this game, actually. Remember, the IE games are (not necessarily accurate) implementations of subsets of the D&D ruleset. As a result, there may be differences, and the lack of Epic rules is one example. (I believe this game predates the Epic Level Handbook anyway.)

One example of a difference is that Paladins get 6th level spells at level 29. In the Epic Level Handbook ruleset, paladins never get spells above 4th level, though they can get spell slots of higher levels by choosing a certain epic feat.
Posted September 05, 2015
Okay, so... what about my characters in the game? Any suggestions?
Posted September 06, 2015
* Multiclassing casters is a poor idea because it decreases your ability to affect enemies with Spell Resistance. Unlike the 2nd Edition AD&D based games in the series where Magic Resistance was absolute, 3rd Edition SR penetration is done by rolling a d20 and adding your caster class level and seeing if you beat the enemy SR. Thus, much like 1st Edition (e.g., the Gold Box games that recently came out here on GoG), every additional level in your caster class means an additional 5% chance to make your spells stick to heavily resistant enemies. Note in particular that while multiclass casters (as in having multiple caster classes e.g. Cleric/Mage) were quite useful in the AD&D based games, they have become almost worthless in 3rd Edition.

This affects Altredus, Lumia, Fenris, and Ymira.

Lumia and Ymira should be single classed to max caster level (not to mention Cleric level in Lumia's case so Turn Undead runs at its best).

Fenris' spells, if you take 12 rogue levels, will mostly never be very powerful, so don't take too many levels of bard (I can't really see taking more than 5, and that for 2nd level spell slots so you can have the stat buffs - the duration is decent even at low caster levels and usefulness isn't impacted as they do not scale with level).

Altredus depends on how many Paladin abilities you want - they are very front loaded, so you don't need more than a few levels of Paladin (level 3 = disease immunity, level 2 = lay on hands, Cleric abilities will take care of anything past that, so the only thing you stand to lose is 2 HP per level and having a slower BAB progression).

* It's a good idea to multiclass your Fighter; past level 4 (where you get access to weapon specialisation) you don't really get much benefit from the Fighter class except for HP and attack bonus. Especially, Improved Evasion is extremely useful for anyone in the front lines and so you may even want to invest quite deeply into Rogue (you need 10 levels of rogue for IE). On the flip side Balrug could benefit nicely from 4 levels of Fighter so you can get a Weapon Specialisation on him too.
Post edited September 06, 2015 by AurelianDragon
Posted September 06, 2015
Good to know. I know that in core 3.X-edition D&D (3.5 edition being my specialty) that more levels in the same spellcaster class improves bypassing SR, but I wasn't sure if this game definitely followed that like it should.

Would you suggest that I maybe stick with just a Shield Dwarf Barbarian X/Fighter 4 and maybe sub in another class like Monk or Sorcerer instead for my Fighter? I heard Monks get very powerful at higher levels, namely in the late teens level-wise, but I can't say for sure. Druids I hear are so-so, but if I'm definitely going to multi-class my Paladin as a Cleric, it would seem a little too healing-heavy.

As far as Altredus is concerned, I mostly wanted to keep him in the Paladin class to keep him at a high Base Attack Bonus so that he can hit consistently in fights and improve his use of Lay on Hands for emergency healing. I only want 1 level in Painbearer of Ilmater for the Ilmater's Endurance ability. If he really deserves to be more Cleric than Paladin, I can understand that. That might help lighten Lumia's dependency on healing magic and open more avenues for buffing or damage-dealing magic than before.

Fenris, I don't know how powerful a rogue can get past a certain number of levels. Like I had found out before, a skill level of 15 points (before any outside modifiers such as ability scores) is all you need in any rogue skill to defeat any lock or trap that can be defeated via a skill. Spellcasting, I don't care so much about for him except for a few buff spells to help him out in combat (namely stuff like Blur and [Minor] Mirror Image) and as long as he can use a lot of the more useful bardic instruments in the game.

So, in the end, it mostly boils down to what to do with Altredus and Fenris. Galuf and Balrug can easily be replaced. Lumia and Ymira sound like they're best off staying in their respective classes.
Posted September 06, 2015
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powerhouse5000: Would you suggest that I maybe stick with just a Shield Dwarf Barbarian X/Fighter 4 and maybe sub in another class like Monk or Sorcerer instead for my Fighter? I heard Monks get very powerful at higher levels, namely in the late teens level-wise, but I can't say for sure. Druids I hear are so-so, but if I'm definitely going to multi-class my Paladin as a Cleric, it would seem a little too healing-heavy.
One level in Monk will give you AC based off your Wisdom. Hence, it can be useful to get a level in Monk *iff* your character has good Wisdom. (Monk 1/Druid X is often suggested because that lets you use Wisdom for both AC and spells, plus some Monk benefits carry over during Wild Shape.)

For gaining Sorcerer levels without it being a main class, you should ask yourself a few questions.
1. Is there at least once Sorcerer spell you are interested in for that character that
2. your character has enough Charisma to cast (remember, Charisma governs Sorcerer spell casting and the game does implement stat minimums for spell casting, unlike the other IE games) and
3. does not target enemies (in order to avoid dealing with Spell Resistance)?

If you can't answer yes to all three questions, then you shouldn't multiclass.

Also, if you want to minimize the loss of Base Attack Bonuses while still gaining as many levels as possible in the other class, note that:
Sorcerers gain BAB on even levels, so you can get an even number of levels without hurting your BAB compared to a character who took one fewer level.
Monks gain BAB on every level except those congruent to 1 modulo 4, so you can level up to a multiple of 4 without losing BAB. If you are going to take 1 Monk level (and hence are already losing 1 BAB), you can take 3 more without losing any more.
Posted September 06, 2015
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powerhouse5000: Would you suggest that I maybe stick with just a Shield Dwarf Barbarian X/Fighter 4 and maybe sub in another class like Monk or Sorcerer instead for my Fighter? I heard Monks get very powerful at higher levels, namely in the late teens level-wise, but I can't say for sure. Druids I hear are so-so, but if I'm definitely going to multi-class my Paladin as a Cleric, it would seem a little too healing-heavy.
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dtgreene: One level in Monk will give you AC based off your Wisdom. Hence, it can be useful to get a level in Monk *iff* your character has good Wisdom. (Monk 1/Druid X is often suggested because that lets you use Wisdom for both AC and spells, plus some Monk benefits carry over during Wild Shape.)

For gaining Sorcerer levels without it being a main class, you should ask yourself a few questions.
1. Is there at least once Sorcerer spell you are interested in for that character that
2. your character has enough Charisma to cast (remember, Charisma governs Sorcerer spell casting and the game does implement stat minimums for spell casting, unlike the other IE games) and
3. does not target enemies (in order to avoid dealing with Spell Resistance)?

If you can't answer yes to all three questions, then you shouldn't multiclass.

Also, if you want to minimize the loss of Base Attack Bonuses while still gaining as many levels as possible in the other class, note that:
Sorcerers gain BAB on even levels, so you can get an even number of levels without hurting your BAB compared to a character who took one fewer level.
Monks gain BAB on every level except those congruent to 1 modulo 4, so you can level up to a multiple of 4 without losing BAB. If you are going to take 1 Monk level (and hence are already losing 1 BAB), you can take 3 more without losing any more.
Oh, I apparently miswrote my last reply. What I meant by "sub in" is to replace one the Fighter with a Monk or Sorcerer. Those guys I'd keep in their class. I know all too well how they work. It's just whether or not they're powerful enough at higher levels to take down many monsters, namely in Heart of Fury mode.
Posted April 10, 2017
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powerhouse5000: So I read that in this game, spellcasting progresses either very slowly or not at all past level 20. I have beaten the game not too long ago and got to delve a bit into Heart of Fury mode before I loss use of my original GoG copy (Thanks a lot Windows 8.1!!!!). I don't know how melee classes or classes with limited spellcasting like paladins, rangers or bards are affected, so here's my question: Is there any point in any class going beyond level 20? Here's the party I intend to have, X meaning the class I intend to mainly keep them with levels in.
Spell progression is not too bad after level 20.
for rangers and paladings
@lv 20: 3/3/3/3
@lv 30: 5/5/5/5/3/1

Wizards gains the least
@lv 20: 4 for each spell level
@lv 30: one more for the first 5 spell levels

Sorcerer spell know
@lv 20: 5/5/4/4/4/3/3/3/3
@lv 30: 7/7/7/6/6/5/5/4/4
per day
@lv 20: 6 for each spell levels
@lv 30: 8/8/7/7/7/6/6/6/6

Cleric & Druids
@lv 20: 5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4
@lv 30: 7/7/6/6/6/5/5/5/5

Bard:
@lv 20: 5/5/5/5/5/4
@lv 30: 7/7/7/7/6/6/5/4
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Icewind Dale seriesIWD2 classes after level 20?(9 posts)solved(9 posts)solved
(9 posts)solved