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Icewind Dale seriesAdvice for an old-school party(30 posts)(30 posts)
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Posted October 22, 2013
I was thinking of taking another run through IWD (with HoW and TotL). In terms of party, I'm planning on going classic, so basically fighter, cleric, mage, and thief. All will be single classed. More specifically, I'm thinking:

Female Human LG Paladin (Long sword, Maces, Long Bow)
Male Dwarf NG Cleric (Flails, Slings, Maces)
Male Halfling N Thief (Dagger/Short Sword, Short Bow,
Female Elven LN Mage (Darts? Sling?)

I know this isn't the most power-gamey party, but that's not the point. It's all about theme. I'll also have the 3e sneak attack rules turned on so my Thief will be more useful in combat.

What I haven't settled on is the spread in weapon proficiencies. With such a small group, of course there's no way to cover all the bases (especially since only one class is going to have unrestricted weapon selection). The only obvious choice is long swords for the paladin. For the thief, I'm thinking either daggers or short swords. Most if his damage is going to come from sneak attacks anyway. The cleric is going to get the best blunts, but the paly is going to need a halfway decent one for backup when fighting some undead. As for the thief, there's really no good blunt weapon backup for him, I'm guessing (no good clubs or staves for thieves). And, does it even matter what I give the mage? He's not going to be terrible useful with weapons regardless, right?

Anyway, any tips anyone can give me on how to divvy up weapons would be great. Thanks.
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: I was thinking of taking another run through IWD (with HoW and TotL). In terms of party, I'm planning on going classic, so basically fighter, cleric, mage, and thief. All will be single classed. More specifically, I'm thinking:

Female Human LG Paladin (Long sword, Maces, Long Bow)
Male Dwarf NG Cleric (Flails, Slings, Maces)
Male Halfling N Thief (Dagger/Short Sword, Short Bow,
Female Elven LN Mage (Darts? Sling?)

I know this isn't the most power-gamey party, but that's not the point. It's all about theme. I'll also have the 3e sneak attack rules turned on so my Thief will be more useful in combat.

What I haven't settled on is the spread in weapon proficiencies. With such a small group, of course there's no way to cover all the bases (especially since only one class is going to have unrestricted weapon selection). The only obvious choice is long swords for the paladin. For the thief, I'm thinking either daggers or short swords. Most if his damage is going to come from sneak attacks anyway. The cleric is going to get the best blunts, but the paly is going to need a halfway decent one for backup when fighting some undead. As for the thief, there's really no good blunt weapon backup for him, I'm guessing (no good clubs or staves for thieves). And, does it even matter what I give the mage? He's not going to be terrible useful with weapons regardless, right?

Anyway, any tips anyone can give me on how to divvy up weapons would be great. Thanks.
Give the Cleric or the Pally Hammers. That way you can make use of Conlan's Hammer, which can be mighty handy.

I personally hate having to go into my inventory every time I want to switch from weapon and shield to ranged (i.e. bows), so I tend to give my shield-users a sling, which can be equipped with the shield as well (slings also add your character's STR bonus to damage, so it's a nice plus).

For the Thief, it's your choice. There are a couple decent daggers in the game and if memory serves there are also a couple nice short swords. I would highly recommend going with a multiclass for this character only though: FTR/Thief. It makes your Thief so much more useable in a melee situation.

For the mage, no she's not going to be terribly useful as far as weapons go, but darts and slings are both missile weapons, so give her whatever you find that's good. You'll find tons of darts and that's a decent way to use them up if you find you don't need the cash from selling them. There are some daggers that are mage-only that grant extra spell slots, so look out for those. The only drawback is you can't unequip them to use a ranged weapon or you lose the extra spells. But since mages have such pathetic thac0, this may not really be an issue...
Post edited October 22, 2013 by Coelocanth
Posted October 22, 2013
Isn't there a rather low level cap for Dwarf Clerics? Or was that only in the Gold Box games?

Similarly with blunt weapons - it would be a bit of a waste of skill points if Thieves can't backstab with them.
Posted October 22, 2013
I forgot about that hammer. I think I'll do paly on hammers and leave the generally stronger blunts for the cleric.

I'm the same way when it comes to inventory switching. However, with this party, if I don't go that route, only my thief will be using bows. Considering bows are the strongest ranged weapons in the game, I'd like to have as many people on them as possible.

I do remember the mage daggers, now that you mention it. If I get one, hopefully I'll have enough spare scrolls and wands that I can just leave one equipped for him/her.

I know the Fighter/Thief would be more versatile, but I'm avoiding multi-classes in favor of the more traditional party (1 fighter, 1 cleric, 1 mage, 1 thief, all single-classed). I'm strongly tempted to dual class my thief into a mage once his traps and locks are maxed out, just so I can fit in another tank, but I'm fighting the urge. I want to keep this party traditional.
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: I'm strongly tempted to dual class my thief into a mage once his traps and locks are maxed out, just so I can fit in another tank, but I'm fighting the urge. I want to keep this party traditional.
You can always use Tenser's Transformation later in the game to get another fighter for a short time.
Posted October 22, 2013
You can always use Tenser's Transformation later in the game to get another fighter for a short time.
I'm actually more tempted to multi the thief to a F/T more than anything else. That way, he could use long bows. But, I won't. Fighter (well, paladin), mage, cleric, thief. One of each. Seriously, though, a F/T would add a ton to this party, just in combat skill. I have to resist the urge.

And, I thought that thieves could backstab/sneak attack with clubs and staves. As long as it's a thief melee weapon, they should be good to go.

Also, it's been a while since I've played, but I'm pretty sure there's no race-based level cap in IWD.
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: And, I thought that thieves could backstab/sneak attack with clubs and staves. As long as it's a thief melee weapon, they should be good to go.

Also, it's been a while since I've played, but I'm pretty sure there's no race-based level cap in IWD.
Correct on both counts.
Posted October 22, 2013
Oh, is it worth specializing the mage? I know with HoW, every specialist takes a hit, but for and extra spell a level, is it worth the sacrifice for any of the specialists?

Edit:
I just realized another practical concern. I remember when playing this before with a six person party, I wasn't finding mage scrolls fast enough to keep up with the character's spell progression. Am I remembering this wrong? If not, then with a four person party and the subsequent faster leveling, I expect this will be an even bigger problem...
Post edited October 22, 2013 by Kneller
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: Oh, is it worth specializing the mage? I know with HoW, every specialist takes a hit, but for and extra spell a level, is it worth the sacrifice for any of the specialists?
IMO, no it's not worth it if you have only one mage.
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Kneller: Edit:
I just realized another practical concern. I remember when playing this before with a six person party, I wasn't finding mage scrolls fast enough to keep up with the character's spell progression. Am I remembering this wrong? If not, then with a four person party and the subsequent faster leveling, I expect this will be an even bigger problem...
Yes, you'll run into this 'issue', but I don't consider that huge since the spells you'll have available will be what the designers intended for the encounters at any particular point in the game. But yes, you'll likely find that your mage will be running with empty higher level slots for much of the game.
Posted October 22, 2013
That's really going to nerf my mage in an already nerfed party. I'm back to being tempted to run a thief/mage dual. Oi.

Well, I can make this work. Is there any way to make my mage useful in a fight since he'll be a little short on spells and useless with weapons?
Posted October 22, 2013
Icewind Dale (and most of the other D&D CRPG's) is incredibly permissive in what it allows for resting, and along with the ability to just reload if you get into trouble it's very rare that one extra spell slot is going to be a big deal. This makes specialization less attractive than it would be in pen and paper (and, of course, it was balanced for pen and paper games). If you're trying to win the game with a minimal number of rest cycles or without reloads, then specialization starts becoming a lot more attractive. If you're just going to rest and reload freely, then going with a generalist is quite sensible.

Scroll availability is definitely a problem for single-class mage in both Icewind Dale games, and makes multi-classing a lot more attractive. Either Fighter/Mage or Thief/Mage would serve you quite well.
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: That's really going to nerf my mage in an already nerfed party. I'm back to being tempted to run a thief/mage dual. Oi.

Well, I can make this work. Is there any way to make my mage useful in a fight since he'll be a little short on spells and useless with weapons?
Good points by Darvin.

I wouldn't worry about your mage being nerfed though. She'll have access to the same spells she would if she were in a 6 character party. And since she'll be higher level than the game designers planned and even though she'll be running with some empty higher level slots, she'll have access to a few more spell castings of lower level slots because of being higher level. As far as what else she can do, you'll likely have some extra scrolls kicking about of spells she already knows, and there's always buffing potions (like Agility or Mind Focusing) which can help in ranged combat. There are also things like Oil of Fiery Burning, potions of Explosion, and Flaming Oil that she can toss into the fray for some extra damage potential. Necklace of Explsions, wands, and rods are also available that she'll be able to use when the spells run out.
Posted October 22, 2013
I'm trying to be reasonable with my resting. So, no resting in dungeons (if I can help it). I'll rest in towns as much as possible, and outdoor areas if a place looks safe or defensible. It's kind of an RP thing.

I can't bring myself to multi-class. The whole theme of the party is a single-classed traditional PnP style group.

I'm a little tossed on race for my thief (single-classed), though. Elf vs. Halfling. The elf is little more combat hardy with this bonuses to swords/bows and potential 18 Str, but the halfling does get all those bonuses to saves.
Posted October 22, 2013
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Kneller: I'm a little tossed on race for my thief (single-classed), though. Elf vs. Halfling. The elf is little more combat hardy with this bonuses to swords/bows and potential 18 Str, but the halfling does get all those bonuses to saves.
I'd say go with Halfling; regardless of whether it's better or worse (you've identified the key tradeoffs) it's a better fit for the party theme you have going.
Posted October 22, 2013
So the final tally is:

LG Female Human Paladin (long sword, bow, hammer)
NG Female Dwarven Cleric (mace, slings)
N Male Halfling Thief (daggers, bow)
LN Male Half-elven Mage (daggers)

A few assorted questions:

1) Are there any fan made patches I should add on top of the GoG version?
2) It's been a long time since I've played, is there a particular level that would be good to start HoW?
3) And TotL didn't even exist when I last played. Is there a suggested level for that?

Thanks again.
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Icewind Dale seriesAdvice for an old-school party(30 posts)(30 posts)
(30 posts)