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OK, I might be creating too many question topics in this forum, but here is another one.

Stealth, according to the manual:

The Stealth skill gives a hero the ability to sneak past other armies
to flag mines, collect resources, steal artifacts, and spy on enemy
troop movement. This only works, however, if the hero is alone and
at least six tiles away from another friendly army.
As a special
bonus, a character that uses the Stealth skill effectively and sneaks
by an army will gain a portion of the experience he or she would
normally gain if he or she had defeated that army in combat.
(emphasis mine)

I haven't used the skill myself, but from what I read on the net, the bolded part can't be true, else you wouldn't be able to go deep into enemy territory, without an army following you.
Is this true, or has it been changed, or am I not reading it properly.
This question / problem has been solved by pepakimage
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ZFR: OK, I might be creating too many question topics in this forum, but here is another one.

Stealth, according to the manual:

The Stealth skill gives a hero the ability to sneak past other armies
to flag mines, collect resources, steal artifacts, and spy on enemy
troop movement. This only works, however, if the hero is alone and
at least six tiles away from another friendly army.
As a special
bonus, a character that uses the Stealth skill effectively and sneaks
by an army will gain a portion of the experience he or she would
normally gain if he or she had defeated that army in combat.
avatar
ZFR: (emphasis mine)

I haven't used the skill myself, but from what I read on the net, the bolded part can't be true, else you wouldn't be able to go deep into enemy territory, without an army following you.
Is this true, or has it been changed, or am I not reading it properly.
Effective Stealth is calculated as the worst value of Stealth for all members of the army performing it. Generally, that means that you can only use Stealth with:
a) An army composed of a single hero with Stealth.
b) An army composed of several heroes. The hero with lowest Stealth level determines the Stealth ability of the army.
c) An army composed of Bandits and possibly stealthy hero(es).

There is no limitation to other armies nearby, each gets its own Stealth score calculated separately.

Note that Stealth isn't really a very good skill. It used to be very efficient in the early versions of the game where stealth-XP value of monsters didn't drop for higher difficulty levels, because you could get more XP sneaking past neutral stacks than fighting them, but once that bug has been fixed, Stealth is no longer efficient: 1) Most maps place strong stacks at key chokepoints, making it impossible to use Stealth to pass these areas. 2) A skill invested into Stealth is a skill not invested into something better. Admittedly, you want to have Scouting skill for its Pathfinding subskill, but instead of getting two levels of Scouting (Master and Grandmaster) and five levels of Stealth, you could have invested the same number of level-ups into four levels of Combat and three levels of Melee, which is a far more useful combination. Or, say, three levels of Nature, two levels of Herbalism, one level of Meditation and say, one level of Combat, which would give you an access to Water Elementals and Quicksand, always a useful combination.

Note: Don't worry about your heroes venturing alone into the opponent's area. That's generally what you want to do, anyway, as heroes are far more powerful than creatures, even at low levels (as low as level 5 or so). Just make sure you get Expert Melee and as high Combat as possible, load up on Potions of Immortality and go ahead. You can fight just about anything if you have plenty of ImO's, and you can always use the hit-and-run tactics of killing what can be killed, then fleeing to your closest town to replenish your ImO supply.
Post edited May 02, 2016 by pepak
But what about the information about stealthing hero having to be at least 6 tiles away from friendly units (which I understood to be 6 tiles or less, but I see it probably means 6 tiles or more)? Is this used in the game too?

Regarding its usefuleness, I was reading the discussion here:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=7853

I specificially found this post interesting:

stealth is way better than anyone thought

... and not so much because it gives experience but because it nearly replaces everything you need.

quoting beastgrandmaster: " just to get grandmaster stealth you have to expend 6-7 gained ranks which are simply too precious to waste advancing up a fairly redundant skill."

how wrong... You can easily "waste" even much more ranks and still be better off. A simple thief with GM Stealth basically does the job of a full grown archmage with mighty army. After all, getting as good fighting hero as possible is not an end in itself. Even killing those hapless wandering critters is not an end in itself. For most of the game, the goal is to move around, take the mines, take the artifacts, take the towns, f*** the enemy in the ass and get your imperial economy going. Its cool to take a dark-champion-guarded goldmine with the help of four weeks worth of army and level 15 archmage. But its even cooler to take the same goldmine with your GM thief alone, leaving those darkchamps alive and GUARDING YOUR MINE.

If you play on easy, then its ok to just kill anybody. But on champion difficulty stealth becomes THE BEST. Firstly, the neutral stacks are bigger and you would need too much army to get past them without stealth. Secondly, neutral stacks are bigger and you get more exp for avoiding them with stealth. Thirdly, resources are scarce and that makes getting the huge army you need instead of stealth much harder. Fourth, resources are scarce and stealing some mines gives you a considerable competitive advantage over others.
While stealth generally doesn't match my style, those are some good points. I might play a stealthy hero once, just to see what it's like.
Post edited May 02, 2016 by ZFR
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ZFR: But what about the information about stealthing hero having to be at least 6 tiles away from friendly units (which I understood to be 6 tiles or less, but I see it probably means 6 tiles or more)? Is this used in the game too?
No, there has never been such a limitation.
Regarding its usefuleness, I was reading the discussion here:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=7853

While stealth generally doesn't match my style, those are some good points. I might play a stealthy hero ones, just to see what it's like.
I can't agree to the claims in the post you linked. As far as I can tell, the person doesn't really know what he's talking about. I see that I replied to his post back then, and I stand by that reply. I will simply add that H4 is *not* a game where you want to use creatures for fighting; you use them as support, to carry artifacts around or to give your hero a movement boost, but using them to actually fight your fights is wasteful.

By all means, go ahead and try the skill out, but you will almost certainly find that it is not efficient enough.
Thanks.
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pepak: you use (...) to give your hero a movement boost.
Just one last thing, this might be a stupid question, but what kind of cretures give your hero a movement boost. I thought hero movement was a constant 22 (assuming no artifacts, stables, skills... etc). I had no idea creatures could change it.
And another thing, sorry not really related, but I can't find the answer anywhere, and since you see to know this game well, I'll ask here:

How much duration do spells have? Do all combat spells now have duration for end of combat? What about adventure map spells like Pathfinding?
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ZFR: Just one last thing, this might be a stupid question, but what kind of cretures give your hero a movement boost. I thought hero movement was a constant 22 (assuming no artifacts, stables, skills... etc). I had no idea creatures could change it.
Hero acquires the speed of the fastest unit in his army. Early in a map, Sprites are excellent carriers.
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ZFR: How much duration do spells have? Do all combat spells now have duration for end of combat? What about adventure map spells like Pathfinding?
Duration of H4 spells is unlimited for battle-map spells and until-the-end-of-turn for adventure-map spells. With obvious exceptions such as Berserk or Hypnotize.
Post edited May 02, 2016 by pepak
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pepak: ...
Thank you!
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ZFR: While stealth generally doesn't match my style, those are some good points. I might play a stealthy hero once, just to see what it's like.
I tried GM stealth at one point, and it was quite amusing to go prancing past pretty much everything. Each turn, end your movement in a location where your hero isn't going to jump on a passing army, and you can pretty much go anywhere with impunity. If something doesn't have a creature stack right on it, then you can likely take it.

You'll still need killing power in some fashion (whether on this hero or another), but stealth can let you get some extra experience. Stealth past a stack for xp, then kill the stack for more xp. You'll have to be deliberate about killing the stack, though, since Stealth messes with the auto-engage logic.

I think you're likely to pick up GM stealth in the Chaos campaign, since Tawni starts as a thief. Been awhile since I played it, so I don't remember the level caps and how many skill boosters are available.
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ZFR: Just one last thing, this might be a stupid question, but what kind of cretures give your hero a movement boost. I thought hero movement was a constant 22 (assuming no artifacts, stables, skills... etc). I had no idea creatures could change it.
Your heroes will generally move at the speed of your fastest creature. Look for fast creatures and/or fliers. When you look at the screen for splitting armies, you can see how much move each group will have while you are splitting.

Creatures will generally NOT get a move bonus from stacking with faster creatures. The speed of waspworts is a big part of why I don't use them.

Creatures might get a move bonus while stacked with your hero, I think depending on your hero's skills.
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Bookwyrm627: Creatures might get a move bonus while stacked with your hero, I think depending on your hero's skills.
Skills (Pathfinding) or artifacts.
Are Tactics bonuses from 2 different heroes in one army cumulative?

Also, do I understand Tactics do not work on the hero who has them, but on the creatures in his army. So does Tactics from Hero A work on Hero B, assuming they are in same army, and vice versa?
Post edited May 02, 2016 by ZFR
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ZFR: Are Tactics bonuses from 2 different heroes in one army cumulative?

Also, do I understand Tactics do not work on the hero who has them, but on the creatures in his army. So does Tactics from Hero A work on Hero B, assuming they are in same army, and vice versa?
I think only the highest skill level applies, and I don't think they work for other heroes in the army.

To test, you could get the heroes killed and check the readjusted stats mid combat.
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ZFR: Are Tactics bonuses from 2 different heroes in one army cumulative?
No. Neither are artifacts. When something affects an army, the values for all surviving heroes are calculated separately and the highest value is used.
Also, do I understand Tactics do not work on the hero who has them, but on the creatures in his army. So does Tactics from Hero A work on Hero B, assuming they are in same army, and vice versa?
Only creatures.
It does look like Combat is way overpowered. You basically don't need anything else. 1 might hero with combat + 1 spellcasting hero seem to be able to take care of anything.

(This is based on the first life campaign. I hope/assume the later ones will be more challenging.)

If you truly don't need creatures once your hero gets above level n, then it's truly sad.
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ZFR: It does look like Combat is way overpowered. You basically don't need anything else. 1 might hero with combat + 1 spellcasting hero seem to be able to take care of anything.

(This is based on the first life campaign. I hope/assume the later ones will be more challenging.)

If you truly don't need creatures once your hero gets above level n, then it's truly sad.
Depending on the monster stacks and sizes, and the hero's skills, you can roam without creatures pretty freely after reaching a certain power level. Potions, especially potions of immortality, can really strengthen the hero.

The potential strength of heroes in this implementation is one of the complaints about this game.