bushwhacker2k: I just came from trying out Risen 2 and running away screaming from its fencing-style combat... and then I came to Gothic 3... and now I know what inspired the melee combat in Risen 2!!!

The issue with the attacks is that each swing and the reaction to each swing is so underwhelming that it's very easy to lose track of what's even going on. A combo is initiated by a left-click, but right-clicks can follow, adding quicker strikes. Though I keep right-clicking, the combo just ends unexpectedly and then whatever enemy I'm fighting wails on me for a long chain of attacks with me not sure what to do or what I did wrong.

I don't think Gothic 3 is worthless, I like a lot of what I'm seeing in the game, but I'm really not sure how to handle melee properly.

DarrkPhoenix: Changes made in the community patch made melee much more difficult in Gothic 3. In the base game you could take down just about any human opponent just by constantly attacking, but with the patch you need to be much more careful with your timing (this is actually pretty similar to how melee worked out in Gothic 1 and 2). If you go the melee route it will be fairly difficult at the start until you're able to boost up your armor (so that you can take more hits) and your strength (so you can really dish out the damage). I'd personally recommend going two-weapon style if you go pure melee, as some of the moves available make taking on groups quite a bit easier (the spin move is quicker than comparable moves with other weapons and chains into other attacks better). Towards the beginning the best way I found of handling single opponents is to wait for them to attack then run to the side to dodge and follow up with an attack while they're open. With animals most are best handled by waiting for them to attack then interrupting their attack with a quick strike. Overall learn to read the attacks of your opponents and the timing of the attacks- it can take a little while, but doing so is pretty much essential to being able to fight effectively in melee.

DarrkPhoenix: According to the CP changelog the alterations were introduced in 1.70 (and mostly fell under the Alternative Balancing and Improved AI options. Enemy AI was changed quite a bit to make better use of blocking and breaking out of block and stun lock, and when fighting multiple opponents the AI was changed so that several opponents would attack you at once (in the original game only 1 opponent would go after you at once in melee, while the rest just stood around).

From the changelog:

Only with AI switch turned on: New melee AI for NPCs

- When NPCs use weapons, they are able to block an attack completely.
- The hero can block constantly for 2.5 seconds at most.
- NPCs can't block forever, too, but longer than the hero.
- A successful block can be recognized by a corresponding sound.
- Enemies won't hit from too far away so often.
- NPCs who use a weapon can walk in a circle around the hero.
- The "intelligence" (or error frequency, resp.) of NPCs is attached to the level of difficulty.
- Arena fights are one level harder than other fights.
- Animals and monsters are able to sprint to their enemies.
- Hit probability of animals and monsters potentially improved.
- Animals and monsters use different combat tactics when the player rightclicks constantly.
- Nearly all animals and monsters now chase after the hero longer than before.

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Only with AI switch and/or "Alternative Balancing" turned on:

- The hero can be attacked by a maximum of one, two or three melee enemies at the same time (depending on the level of difficulty).
- Attack frequency of boars, wolves, Temple guards etc. decreased. Exceptions: zombies and mummies.
- Attack movements of trolls are slower.
- Some mages are able to summon creatures who help them when the hero attacks them or their comrades.

bushwhacker2k: Just checking- is the Community Patch built-in with this version?

DarrkPhoenix: Yes. I think the current GOG install uses CP version 1.74

DarrkPhoenix: Yes. I think the current GOG install uses CP version 1.74

DarrkPhoenix: Changes made in the community patch made melee much more difficult in Gothic 3.

MadOverlord: Wait wait, harder? I thought it was supposed to make it fairer. I recall combat being won by whoever got the first strike (stun-lock). Now I'm reading that the hero can't stun-lock as well anymore, but are enemies just as good as ever?

MadOverlord: Wait wait, harder? I thought it was supposed to make it fairer. I recall combat being won by whoever got the first strike (stun-lock). Now I'm reading that the hero can't stun-lock as well anymore, but are enemies just as good as ever?