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Gothic seriesGood going, GOG, on this "Win10" update.(20 posts)(20 posts)
(20 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 03, 2022
Sure, let's add in several extra dynamic libraries for the Gothic2.exe executable in the folder, and then give them all a GUI window, where anyone can set whatever they like.

I already managed to bust both old SystemPack and new Union with this new shiny toy, so I can see a wonderful future for the players and modders alike; filled with "This doesn't work?" and "Why does it crash (at launch)?" questions and etc.

Why this and not game/Union/graphic card control panel that has most of these options inbuilt and configurable via configuration windows/files? Why forcing users and modders to receive another layer of issues?

Now NotR on GOG is no longer a "good old game" that everyone used as the clean base for modding and playing since forever. Now it's another clustertoss like on Steam and other digital distribution platforms that's going to generate problems.
Posted June 04, 2022
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Wickez: I already managed to bust both old SystemPack and new Union with this new shiny toy, so I can see a wonderful future for the players and modders alike; filled with "This doesn't work?" and "Why does it crash (at launch)?" questions and etc.

Why this and not game/Union/graphic card control panel that has most of these options inbuilt and configurable via configuration windows/files? Why forcing users and modders to receive another layer of issues?
SystemPack and Union are software hooks, which is wrong way to apply any modifications in the first place. They are rather dead ends, than future of modding.

OpenGothic has much better potential. And it should work fine on any supported systems.)
Posted June 04, 2022
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Wickez: I already managed to bust both old SystemPack and new Union with this new shiny toy, so I can see a wonderful future for the players and modders alike; filled with "This doesn't work?" and "Why does it crash (at launch)?" questions and etc.

Why this and not game/Union/graphic card control panel that has most of these options inbuilt and configurable via configuration windows/files? Why forcing users and modders to receive another layer of issues?
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AlexTerranova: SystemPack and Union are software hooks, which is wrong way to apply any modifications in the first place. They are rather dead ends, than future of modding.

OpenGothic has much better potential. And it should work fine on any supported systems.)
I see, so you're the guru on how to apply modifications. Thanks for your input, doesn't feel like some dead awareness for the topic at all, especially in the light of the given situation, where GOG applied several software hooks with this new Win10 "patch".

Oh, yeah, and the notorious OpenGothic that's in works since 2015 or so that only last year became finish-playable and doesn't offer (and won't offer) SystemPack/Union compatibility, so it "expects" that authors going to recreate tons of their SystemPack/Union fixes/plugins for the Zengine games that are out there already (and the amount of comparable Ikarus/LeGo fixes that OpenGothic going to support [where both Ikarus/LeGo are based on the error in the games' parsers]? Close to none!)?

Small wonder no one gives a toss about it even after all this time, lol.

Though, we will see.
Post edited June 04, 2022 by Wickez
Posted June 04, 2022
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Wickez: so you're the guru on how to apply modifications
I am professional software developer and experienced game modder.
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Wickez: OpenGothic that's in works since 2015 or so that only last year became finish-playable and doesn't offer (and won't offer) SystemPack/Union compatibility
It is free software. Anyone can fork it and implement necessary functionality.
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Wickez: so it "expects" that authors going to recreate tons of their SystemPack/Union fixes/plugins for the Zengine games that are out there already
Most of Gothic modifications are created using official mod development kit. They are compatible already.

And replacing some function calls in hook-based mods will not take a lot of time, when their features will be available in OpenGothic.
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Wickez: where both Ikarus/LeGo are based on the error in the games' parsers
Much better to implement features in the engine itself, than use its errors to apply changes.
Posted June 05, 2022
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Wickez: so you're the guru on how to apply modifications
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AlexTerranova: I am professional software developer and experienced game modder.
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Wickez: OpenGothic that's in works since 2015 or so that only last year became finish-playable and doesn't offer (and won't offer) SystemPack/Union compatibility
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AlexTerranova: It is free software. Anyone can fork it and implement necessary functionality.
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Wickez: so it "expects" that authors going to recreate tons of their SystemPack/Union fixes/plugins for the Zengine games that are out there already
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AlexTerranova: Most of Gothic modifications are created using official mod development kit. They are compatible already.

And replacing some function calls in hook-based mods will not take a lot of time, when their features will be available in OpenGothic.
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Wickez: where both Ikarus/LeGo are based on the error in the games' parsers
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AlexTerranova: Much better to implement features in the engine itself, than use its errors to apply changes.
Alright. So, if someone gives me their resume and it includes the word "professional", don't stick to the topic at hand, plus use Reddit spacing, I know I can discard their comments right away since they have no value. Good work, sonny. Now go back.

INB4 You start producing again and I won't even read it.
Post edited June 05, 2022 by Wickez
Posted June 05, 2022
I do not really care about such insults. I write here for other users, who might not know all possible options to run Gothic games and modifications on modern systems.

I mean, that it does not matter much, if GOG has broken compatibility with some software hooks. Unlike open-source engine ( OpenGothic ), they will become incompatible with newer system configurations anyway.

Instead of investing time in development of SystemPack, Union, etc. and modifications relying on them, it is more reasonable to improve and complete OpenGothic.
Posted June 05, 2022
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AlexTerranova: I do not really care about such insults. I write here for other users, who might not know all possible options to run Gothic games and modifications on modern systems.

I mean, that it does not matter much, if GOG has broken compatibility with some software hooks. Unlike open-source engine ( OpenGothic ), they will become incompatible with newer system configurations anyway.

Instead of investing time in development of SystemPack, Union, etc. and modifications relying on them, it is more reasonable to improve and complete OpenGothic.
I didn't know about open gothic. I am a bit pissed that Gog broke the game again. It worked pretty good until know. I will checkout open Gothic though. It sounds promising.
Posted June 07, 2022
After the Gothic 2 update my game didn't work. I uninstalled everything and just reinstalled the new Gothic 2 through galaxy It works. It says 2.7 so I wonder if they have put some of these patches in the game on their end. I'm only running at 1080p using the graphic setup built in.
Posted June 07, 2022
Poprzednia wersja była świetna.
W obecnej brak jest w standardzie ustawień klawiszy opcji WSAD, a do tego myszka jest ultraczuła. Zmniejszenie opcji na minimum powoduje mniej więcej taki poziom jak wcześniej miałem na pośrednim ustawieniu.
Do d.... z takim uptadem. Na szczęście zachowałem kopię poprzedniej wersji.
Post edited June 07, 2022 by syriusz81
Posted June 08, 2022
I agree with OP such patches should be an extra download or the old files shall be provided with a simple tool to switch between both.

Also OpenGothic seems strange no changelog and "DirectX11 - same as Union, but don't worry - OpenGothic has nice graphics out of the box"

Must be a joke, certainly feels like it if I look at the screenshots on the github if I compare those to GD3D11 from my last playthourgh 2021-09

Nice that some folks having a go at that project but it is not on par with what GD3D11, SystemPack, Union offer^^
Post edited June 08, 2022 by passionata
Posted June 08, 2022
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smuggly: It says 2.7 so I wonder if they have put some of these patches in the game on their end.
Gothic 2 Gold has been 2.7 since its initial release.
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passionata: Also OpenGothic seems strange no changelog and "DirectX11 - same as Union, but don't worry - OpenGothic has nice graphics out of the box"
A bit strange wording, indeed.) Actually, it means, that OpenGothic is using Vulkan rendering.

There are change logs for each public build:
https://github.com/Try/OpenGothic/releases
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passionata: Must be a joke, certainly feels like it if I look at the screenshots on the github if I compare those to GD3D11 from my last playthourgh 2021-09
It should look and feel like the original game. It is not some "Enhanced Edition" or "remaster". It is an open-source recreation of the engine.

However, it opens possibilities to add new features and use better-quality assets. For example, ray-tracing implementation is work-in-progress.
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passionata: it is not on par with what GD3D11, SystemPack, Union offer
At this moment. But OpenGothic has better potential for future development, and it is a lot more stable by design.
Posted June 08, 2022
Bad update. Yeah, it has anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing out of the box, but large decrease in performance and bunch of small bugs like stretched icons in the inventory are not worth it. Fortunately, you can downgrade it with gog galgaxy.
Posted June 10, 2022
Too much basic stuff not working currently in OpenGothic:
Jumping/Climbing not working fully aka anywhere it was before
No diving
Theft not properly implemented
Many spells not working, some gamebreaking:
Mana invest spells
Wind fist
Transformation spells
Light
Aoe spells

Also performance was bad on my Rig 30-60 fps jumping all the time (am playing Red Dead Redemption 2 with 50-60 FPS) loading a hirez texturepack outright crashes the engine when starting a new game (also in menu sound is distorted/slow).

Also any bugfixing would have to be implemented as binary patches to keep it opensource which is kinda of a horror for any novice scripter willing to write patches.

Certainly a project to keep an eye on but in its current state I would never start a playthrough with it.

While playing last year I had maybe 5-10 crashes using a fully modded Gothic2 and given the extra load put on the engine that really is neglectable nothing gamebreaking happened in that 60h+ playthrough.
Posted June 10, 2022
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passionata: Too much basic stuff not working currently in OpenGothic
I agree, that it would be more reasonable to complete all features of the original games first. And only then start working on additional functionality.
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passionata: Also performance was bad on my Rig 30-60 fps jumping all the time
OpenGothic is rendering the entire location at once, while original game has very limited distance of view.

It is optimized for at least medium-performance modern gaming computers. However, less-demanding options could be implemented in future versions.
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passionata: Also any bugfixing would have to be implemented as binary patches to keep it opensource which is kinda of a horror for any novice scripter willing to write patches.
What do you mean? Engine programming and mod scripting are unrelated tasks, which are usually performed by different people.

Mod development will not be affected, unless a new modern editor is created for the new engine. But it should rather simplify process, than complicate it.

Engine development is the same as any other free software project. You can either apply fixes to the main code repository, or create your own fork.
Posted June 25, 2022
Okay, I tested the new GOG update and I have to say they have done a great job. No new errors or bugs or performance decreases. The game works on Win10 from stock, they have updated SHW32.dll by company MicroQuill from 6.0.0.3 to 8.0.0.41 where they fixed correct widescreen support etc. (the same way as SystemPack/Union does). They also updated Binkw32.dll to fix the videos playback.
One strange thing is that when I install the english setup they have a newer Binkw32.dll (version 1.8.0.0) but when I install the german setup the Binkw32.dll has version 1.5.21.0. Maybe you can take a look at this?

I don't see a problem when GOG has its own updated files because when you install Primary Patch + Union everything will get replaced anyway back to what it should be.
Just remove ddraw.dll and dinput.dll when Union is applied.
Post edited June 25, 2022 by Porsche2000
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Gothic seriesGood going, GOG, on this "Win10" update.(20 posts)(20 posts)
(20 posts)