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anjohl: Zelda has no storyline. Link trys to save Zelda, and defeat Ganon who tends to be a pig-like creature, or some other baddy, the end. They just remix the elements.
Only about 7 or 8 of them have Ganon... out of 15 games. Quite a few don't have Princess Zelda either. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening have the same story as Ocarina of Time?
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SirPrimalform: Another one being Twinrova appearing in the Oracle games.
That one is simple - Link and Zelda appear in multiple different incarnations. There's no particular reason why they have to be the only ones covered by that rule; Koume and Kotake could be covered as well (though perhaps by a slightly different mechanism or something).
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SirPrimalform: Another one being Twinrova appearing in the Oracle games.
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Pidgeot: That one is simple - Link and Zelda appear in multiple different incarnations. There's no particular reason why they have to be the only ones covered by that rule; Koume and Kotake could be covered as well (though perhaps by a slightly different mechanism or something).
I suppose so, but... have you played the Oracle games? They appear to remember being Ganondorf's mothers. The different incarnations of Link and Zelda seldom have memories of their 'other lives'. So I would think this is more of a case of them having been resurrected (or Capcom not really thinking about the canon much ;) ).
Post edited December 02, 2012 by SirPrimalform
Of course there is an official overarching storyline, it's just that the storyline is a complete mess with splits and connectiontions pulled out of someone's butt in a pointless effort to connect something that was never meant to be connected. It's like trying to shove a round peg through a square hole, it can bedone but the result is ugly. i mean, why is it that only Ocarina splits the timeline when the hero is defeated? Why are the first four games all in the loser timeline?
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Pidgeot: That one is simple - Link and Zelda appear in multiple different incarnations. There's no particular reason why they have to be the only ones covered by that rule; Koume and Kotake could be covered as well (though perhaps by a slightly different mechanism or something).
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SirPrimalform: I suppose so, but... have you played the Oracle games? They appear to remember being Ganondorf's mothers. The different incarnations of Link and Zelda seldom have memories of their 'other lives'. So I would think this is more of a case of them having been resurrected (or Capcom not really thinking about the canon much ;) ).
I have, but that was a long time ago. I don't remember anything in OoX specifically pointing out that they know this, but they may simply have *found out* through legends and somehow this triggered their thirst for revenge.

Let's assume, however, that they were aware of this in OoX. If so, there are ways around that. Ganon was revived in ALttP (if only briefly), which is placed between OoT and OoX, and perhaps this event somehow triggered a memory of their old selves - for all we know, a strong connection like the one between him and Twinrova triggered a memory of the past (assume they were already reincarnated at this point); perhaps his defeat then triggered the urge to "fix" it by bringing him back.

Another interpretation is that Twinrova didn't actually die in OoT; they're faking the entire extended death sequence. Seeing as how no one else has pulled something like that off, it's not completely implausible. If you follow this train of thought, that means Twinrova realized that they couldn't (necessarily) beat Link, and planned this event because they knew it would eventually lead Link to Ganondorf, who they expected *would* be able to do it (and was, in the OoX timeline).

If they *did* die, their last statement in OoT was "I'll come back to haunt you!", and we've all seen what Demise was capable of doing in his dying breath - these are powerful witches, so it's not *that* farfetched that they could do something in this situation (a one-off resurrection or reincarnation).

Of course, the reason Link and Zelda keep reincarnating is because of the curse placed on them by Demise. If Twinrova reincarnated, it would be for a different reason, and perhaps their kind of reincarnation involves full knowledge of their past selves.

And yeah, there's always the possibility that Capcom didn't know/care/the timeline didn't exist in the current form back then. But it's much more fun to make wild theories ;)
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HiPhish: i mean, why is it that only Ocarina splits the timeline when the hero is defeated?
It isn't necessarily the only one, but it's the only one from which the consequences have been explored. This is at least in part because it is the first (known) battle between Link and Ganon and hence the origin of many aspects of the legend.

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HiPhish: Why are the first four games all in the loser timeline?
LoZ and AoL are strictly ordered, so they have to go on the same branch. LA could really go almost anywhere, since there's very little backstory and everything takes place in a dream. That just leaves LttP, and there's no particular reason why it couldn't go in the Downfall timeline.
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HiPhish: Why are the first four games all in the loser timeline?
Because that's what results in Ganon being in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce. That's how the Dark World comes about.

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HiPhish: i mean, why is it that only Ocarina splits the timeline when the hero is defeated?
Because it's the only one with games set in that timeline. I'm pretty sure this is based on the idea that everything that can happen does, in different 'realities'. All Zelda games have endings where Link dies, it's just OoT is the only one that is explored.
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Pidgeot: It isn't necessarily the only one, but it's the only one from which the consequences have been explored. This is at least in part because it is the first (known) battle between Link and Ganon and hence the origin of many aspects of the legend.

LoZ and AoL are strictly ordered, so they have to go on the same branch. LA could really go almost anywhere, since there's very little backstory and everything takes place in a dream. That just leaves LttP, and there's no particular reason why it couldn't go in the Downfall timeline.
Heh, only just noticed you also answered the same two questions of his as I did.

I'm pretty sure Link's Awakening was explicitly set after LttP (though I remembered it saying in the manual, but I lost that years ago) and it's the OoX ones which are indistinct (although they now officially go between LttP and LA which is what I suspected give that Link sets off on a ship at the end of OoX).
Post edited December 02, 2012 by SirPrimalform
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Pidgeot: I have, but that was a long time ago. I don't remember anything in OoX specifically pointing out that they know this, but they may simply have *found out* through legends and somehow this triggered their thirst for revenge.
It was a while ago for me, I might be imagining it. ;)

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Pidgeot: Let's assume, however, that they were aware of this in OoX. If so, there are ways around that. Ganon was revived in ALttP (if only briefly), which is placed between OoT and OoX, and perhaps this event somehow triggered a memory of their old selves - for all we know, a strong connection like the one between him and Twinrova triggered a memory of the past (assume they were already reincarnated at this point); perhaps his defeat then triggered the urge to "fix" it by bringing him back.
Did Ganon actually need reviving in ALttP? My understanding was that he was still alive from the time of Ocarina of Time (since he wasn't defeated). Admittedly you only saw him in his full 'pig' form briefly, but Agahnim was Ganon, or at least was possessed by him. This actually means that Ganon's resurrection at the end of OoX is actually his first revival in this time line. Apart from that, I think what you say makes sense.

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Pidgeot: Another interpretation is that Twinrova didn't actually die in OoT; they're faking the entire extended death sequence. Seeing as how no one else has pulled something like that off, it's not completely implausible. If you follow this train of thought, that means Twinrova realized that they couldn't (necessarily) beat Link, and planned this event because they knew it would eventually lead Link to Ganondorf, who they expected *would* be able to do it (and was, in the OoX timeline).
That's also a good point, everyone else who dies in the game dies 'realistically'. They're the only ones who float away like that, it could well be a trick (I like to think that because I think they're fantastic characters).

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Pidgeot: If they *did* die, their last statement in OoT was "I'll come back to haunt you!", and we've all seen what Demise was capable of doing in his dying breath - these are powerful witches, so it's not *that* farfetched that they could do something in this situation (a one-off resurrection or reincarnation).

Of course, the reason Link and Zelda keep reincarnating is because of the curse placed on them by Demise. If Twinrova reincarnated, it would be for a different reason, and perhaps their kind of reincarnation involves full knowledge of their past selves.
It's possible they 'cursed' themselves to resurrect if Ganondorf was defeated, which he wasn't at the end of OoT and was in LttP, which would explain why they're suddenly there shortly afterwards (since OoX comes directly after LttP with the same Link).

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Pidgeot: And yeah, there's always the possibility that Capcom didn't know/care/the timeline didn't exist in the current form back then. But it's much more fun to make wild theories ;)
Definitely!