Stormwalker: Fuck you, Tony Zurovec. Don't talk shit on DOOM; keep its name out of your mouth.

Stormwalker: "I’d often refer back to Doom and note that it was a great corridor shooter but a terrible maze game. My point was that after the enemies in an area of a Doom map had been destroyed, searching the empty hallways for the red keycard that you somehow missed – and which was the only way to get past a locked door – was incredibly annoying."

First of all, DOOM is a WAY better game than Crusader will ever be. Your red keycard example is bullshit. No commercial level released by ID ever suffered from this problem. Those levels were designed by top notch guys including John Romero himself. The architecture, pacing and flow of the levels are superb, and many times there ARE multiple ways to solve a problem, get a key, navigate a trap, etc. Keys and switches are never placed in random, clandestine spots. Honestly, anyone who spent hours looking for a keycard in a commercial DOOM level was probably retarded. Looks to me like you have selective memory, or maybe just an aversion to great games.

The amount of "mazes" in DOOM were minimal. Wolfenstein 3D, maybe, but not DOOM. DOOM's environments range from corrupted tech bases to cityscapes to hellish abbatoirs. There was a lot of height variation in DOOM, unlike Wolf 3D, and a designer could create towers, sewers, dungeons, rocky cliffs, pretty much anything. Ultimately, with a decent texture set and a little level design skill, a person can create any place he can imagine.

Also, I don't recall you being able to create your own levels for Crusader, while DOOM not only allows but encourages it. That's why DOOM still has a large active modding and level-making community with quality releases every year.

I could go on at length, but the bottom line is: When people compile a list of greatest games of all time, DOOM is always on that list. Crusader never is. Fuck you, Tony Zurovec. Don't talk shit on DOOM; keep its name out of your mouth.

F4LL0UT: Dude, shut up. Even if you disagree with someone you don't have to get THAT rude.

Stormwalker: *ranting and raving about "DOOM, the God of games"*

Wishbone: Yeah, you don't come across as psychotic at all...

banditloaf: There aren't Crusader fanatics like you, there's just you.

Stormwalker: "I’d often refer back to Doom and note that it was a great corridor shooter but a terrible maze game. My point was that after the enemies in an area of a Doom map had been destroyed, searching the empty hallways for the red keycard that you somehow missed – and which was the only way to get past a locked door – was incredibly annoying."

First of all, DOOM is a WAY better game than Crusader will ever be. Your red keycard example is bullshit. No commercial level released by ID ever suffered from this problem. Those levels were designed by top notch guys including John Romero himself. The architecture, pacing and flow of the levels are superb, and many times there ARE multiple ways to solve a problem, get a key, navigate a trap, etc. Keys and switches are never placed in random, clandestine spots. Honestly, anyone who spent hours looking for a keycard in a commercial DOOM level was probably retarded. Looks to me like you have selective memory, or maybe just an aversion to great games.

The amount of "mazes" in DOOM were minimal. Wolfenstein 3D, maybe, but not DOOM. DOOM's environments range from corrupted tech bases to cityscapes to hellish abbatoirs. There was a lot of height variation in DOOM, unlike Wolf 3D, and a designer could create towers, sewers, dungeons, rocky cliffs, pretty much anything. Ultimately, with a decent texture set and a little level design skill, a person can create any place he can imagine.

Also, I don't recall you being able to create your own levels for Crusader, while DOOM not only allows but encourages it. That's why DOOM still has a large active modding and level-making community with quality releases every year.

I could go on at length, but the bottom line is: When people compile a list of greatest games of all time, DOOM is always on that list. Crusader never is. Fuck you, Tony Zurovec. Don't talk shit on DOOM; keep its name out of your mouth.

Stormwalker: When people compile a list of greatest games of all time, DOOM is always on that list. Crusader never is.

Zabinatrix: I've been trying to think back to my days of playing lots of Doom. I haven't really played the Doom games since they were fairly new, but I remember it like you described it too. Doom had some great level design, absolutely, but I don't remember it like Stormwalker describes it.

Maybe there were different ways to reach a keycard, but not many times that I can remember. And any other multiple ways to solve a problem? I don't know - if there are enemies you try to shoot them before they shoot you, if there's a locked door you find the keycard or button. At least that's how I played it - I can't remember finding many alternatives.

That doesn't mean that Doom is a bad game. It was designed to have maze-like maps with enemies to shoot and keycards to find, and not much else. It did that great - but that doesn't mean that it was something that it wasn't ever meant to be.

Anguille: Nope...there's also me...watch your back

J_C_Denton: And me. We'll show No Remorse... :)