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General discussion (archive)Xbox One removing DRM(212 posts)(212 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 19, 2013
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crazy_dave: I think DRM does not necessarily have to mean a loss of game preservation (though it certainly means that now I grant you). But changes on that front would have to involve digital consumer protection laws that don't yet exist. :)
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StingingVelvet: DRM wouldn't harm game preservation if it was patched out eventually all the time, but companies have shown very little interest in doing so. The rare examples of it being officially removed (Alpha Protocol, Far Cry 2, etc.) pale in comparison to the overwhelming number of titles that still require it.

It's frankly painful to install a 6 year old game like Mass Effect and still have to manage my 5 SecuROM installations. Not to mention of course that patches to keep games running well on modern systems basically do not exist. GOG's business model is about paying for such a thing, after all, and can only be done when licenses and rights are all set up nicely and modern, which isn't anywhere near always the case.

Basically if companies showed more interest in preserving their games I would show less concern about DRM ruining it. On PC it isn't as big a deal because open platform means the community can take care of it, and this is why I go ahead and buy Steam games, but I would never support DRM on a closed system.
I see what you mean which is why I think it would take consumer protection laws either forcing patches or forcing authentication servers to be maintained indefinitely (that would kill DRM :P)/forcing a shared authentication protocol so that DRM doesn't tie your game to one service or server or forcing that every DRM version has a DRM-free version that could be bought somewhere else. Something along those lines, but it would almost have to be codified because I agree, I don't see companies doing any of the above voluntarily for the consumer (at least not ubiquitously).
Posted June 19, 2013
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crazy_dave: I think DRM does not necessarily have to mean a loss of game preservation (though it certainly means that now I grant you). But changes on that front would have to involve digital consumer protection laws that don't yet exist. :)
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StingingVelvet: DRM wouldn't harm game preservation if it was patched out eventually all the time, but companies have shown very little interest in doing so. The rare examples of it being officially removed (Alpha Protocol, Far Cry 2, etc.) pale in comparison to the overwhelming number of titles that still require it.

It's frankly painful to install a 6 year old game like Mass Effect and still have to manage my 5 SecuROM installations. Not to mention of course that patches to keep games running well on modern systems basically do not exist. GOG's business model is about paying for such a thing, after all, and can only be done when licenses and rights are all set up nicely and modern, which isn't anywhere near always the case.

Basically if companies showed more interest in preserving their games I would show less concern about DRM ruining it. On PC it isn't as big a deal because open platform means the community can take care of it, and this is why I go ahead and buy Steam games, but I would never support DRM on a closed system.
Hmm. Good point. If Steam were to go down the golden shitter today, I'd be out a few games. I know they have that backup function, but after all these years I hear it's still pretty bugged.
Posted June 19, 2013
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CymTyr: A full-priced digital game is 99.9% of the time the same price as its physical equivalent, is my point. It's only through huge sales in the digital circle that we get the prices we were sort of promised when it was started.
This is in no small part due to brick and mortar stores still pulling their weight on this matter however. I'm glad more and more developers are going digital, not to mention the whole Indie scene is beyond the physical retailers reach luckily.
Posted June 19, 2013
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CymTyr: A full-priced digital game is 99.9% of the time the same price as its physical equivalent, is my point. It's only through huge sales in the digital circle that we get the prices we were sort of promised when it was started.
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Pheace: This is in no small part due to brick and mortar stores still pulling their weight on this matter however. I'm glad more and more developers are going digital, not to mention the whole Indie scene is beyond the physical retailers reach luckily.
Agreed, but with Gamestop now selling digital titles as well, we're starting to see more of a friendliness towards sales, and even impulsedriven.com has daily sales.

Thanks for the reminder, Pheace :)
Posted June 19, 2013
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CymTyr: A full-priced digital game is 99.9% of the time the same price as its physical equivalent, is my point. It's only through huge sales in the digital circle that we get the prices we were sort of promised when it was started.
I'm pretty sure this is just due to retailer agreements. They can't sell a game digitally for less because retailers would refuse to carry the game, they have too much power. One day we'll be all digital and they won't matter, but today they do. The Xbox One and PS4 will do the same exact thing with pricing, digital the same as boxed, but hopefully they mimic the Steam sale tactic as well.


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crazy_dave: I see what you mean which is why I think it would take consumer protection laws either forcing patches or forcing authentication servers to be maintained indefinitely (that would kill DRM :P)/forcing a shared authentication protocol so that DRM doesn't tie your game to one service or server or forcing that every DRM version has a DRM-free version that could be bought somewhere else. Something along those lines, but it would almost have to be codified because I agree, I don't see companies doing any of the above voluntarily for the consumer (at least not ubiquitously).
Agreed.

I like the idea of a Star Trek style "cloud library" of all media ever made. It sounds lovely. The problem is that takes a centralized governmental authority to really run and maintain forever. While corporations are handling things they are always going to take the cheaper route. You can just hear the interview now where some high-up Microsoft executive talks about "only 1% of people playing Xbox One games today" and how "those servers can't be maintained when we're making no money from the system" and whatnot.

They already shut down the original Xbox's Live service and DLC was lost (without piracy). The fact they would do it again is not in question.
Posted June 19, 2013
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CymTyr: A full-priced digital game is 99.9% of the time the same price as its physical equivalent, is my point. It's only through huge sales in the digital circle that we get the prices we were sort of promised when it was started.
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StingingVelvet: I'm pretty sure this is just due to retailer agreements. They can't sell a game digitally for less because retailers would refuse to carry the game, they have too much power. One day we'll be all digital and they won't matter, but today they do. The Xbox One and PS4 will do the same exact thing with pricing, digital the same as boxed, but hopefully they mimic the Steam sale tactic as well.
Yeah I had forgotten about that until after I posted it. Thanks to you and Pheace, I remember now :) Cheers, SV!
Posted June 19, 2013
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crazy_dave: I think DRM does not necessarily have to mean a loss of game preservation (though it certainly means that now I grant you). But changes on that front would have to involve digital consumer protection laws that don't yet exist. :)
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StingingVelvet: DRM wouldn't harm game preservation if it was patched out eventually all the time, but companies have shown very little interest in doing so. The rare examples of it being officially removed (Alpha Protocol, Far Cry 2, etc.) pale in comparison to the overwhelming number of titles that still require it.

It's frankly painful to install a 6 year old game like Mass Effect and still have to manage my 5 SecuROM installations. Not to mention of course that patches to keep games running well on modern systems basically do not exist. GOG's business model is about paying for such a thing, after all, and can only be done when licenses and rights are all set up nicely and modern, which isn't anywhere near always the case.

Basically if companies showed more interest in preserving their games I would show less concern about DRM ruining it. On PC it isn't as big a deal because open platform means the community can take care of it, and this is why I go ahead and buy Steam games, but I would never support DRM on a closed system.
If you're talking GOG style re-releases, on console they're typically emulated, which DRM doesn't affect at all.
Posted June 19, 2013
Huh, well this is something. Will MicroSoft yet again win the console war for the 2nd time running?
Even though the PS4 is more powerful (I think it was 7GB of GDDR5 as opposed to 5GB of DDR3?) and cheaper, the X1 has the same policies on games as Sony now, or close to it. Plus it will be releasing earlier.
Posted June 19, 2013
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FantasyNightmare: Huh, well this is something. Will MicroSoft yet again win the console war for the 2nd time running?
Even though the PS4 is more powerful (I think it was 7GB of GDDR5 as opposed to 5GB of DDR3?) and cheaper, the X1 has the same policies on games as Sony now, or close to it. Plus it will be releasing earlier.
What makes you say MS won? PS3 sold more than the 360 worldwide, granted just about a million, but still, it's more like a tie. And where did you hear that it would be releasing earlier? All that's said is november and both consoles have rumour saying it's the 21st, but nothing clear.
Posted June 19, 2013
This is great news. I thought they were basically committing financial suicide with the previous DRM online policy and with acting too arrogant about it so this will definitely help with sales.

It's still going to be at least two years after launch before I even consider getting a PS4 or XB1 since anything above $350 is a bit too much for a console to me.
Posted June 19, 2013
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CymTyr: Hmm. Good point. If Steam were to go down the golden shitter today, I'd be out a few games. I know they have that backup function, but after all these years I hear it's still pretty bugged.
I think the backup process works fine, it's just pointless because you still need to activate online.
Posted June 19, 2013
Well. This is good and unexpectedly sensible. A huge shame they ever tried to go this route, but at least they've backtracked and they do now have a chance of me getting the console some time, so long as the quality is good and if it offers stuff I want. Before they saw sense, no chance. Now, maybe, quite possibly at some stage. Sony get first shot though, cos they didn't try to treat me like a fucker. But a level of respect is regained for them; admitting you're wrong when you are is a very good move and I no longer wish the One to go do one.

It'll now work like it always should have done ;)

What'd be really nice is if publishers of any media stopped adding any kinds of unneeded restrictions; make it as easy as possible to use anything, whenever you want and with no limiting DRM or download/ install caps. Don't treat every (or indeed, any) consumer like a potential thief who needs handcuffing and restricting, we are not idiots, we just want no hassle and freedom of use with the stuff we buy. The pirates will always find a way round anyway, it's the ordinary consumers who get fucked over, and frankly it just encourages more piracy in search of an easier to use copy than the commercial one, which is madness. Grr.

But then, I'm preaching to the converted :D
Post edited June 19, 2013 by Timelord1963
Posted June 19, 2013
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Timelord1963: What'd be really nice is if publishers of any media stopped adding any kinds of unneeded restrictions; make it as easy as possible to use anything, whenever you want and with no limiting DRM or download/ install caps. Don't treat every (or indeed, any) consumer like a potential thief who needs handcuffing and restricting, we are not idiots, we just want no hassle and freedom of use with the stuff we buy. The pirates will always find a way round anyway
Publishers have to keep their backers happy (whether that be a board or private investors or whatever). By including DRM they demonstrate that they're doing their best to stop piracy, even if their best happens to be totally ineffective.

The latest trend is to implement the same DRM-style limitations but instead call them "social integration" or whatever; the game requires an internet connection every time you launch it but that's not to see whether you're a pirate, no no, it's so it can sync with "the cloud" to download the latest challenges and sync your friends' stats and so forth. It's added value!

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CymTyr: I know they have that backup function, but after all these years I hear it's still pretty bugged.
The best way to back up Steam games is to manually back up both the steamapps folder (which has the games) and the userdata folder (which has saves for some games). This is faster than the built-in backup/restore process (at the cost of using more storage space) and also means you have the game's files in a readily accessible form should Steam suddenly go downhill or whatever.
Post edited June 19, 2013 by Arkose
Posted June 19, 2013
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FantasyNightmare: Huh, well this is something. Will MicroSoft yet again win the console war for the 2nd time running?
Even though the PS4 is more powerful (I think it was 7GB of GDDR5 as opposed to 5GB of DDR3?) and cheaper, the X1 has the same policies on games as Sony now, or close to it. Plus it will be releasing earlier.
They only won in US? Nintendo won overall I think. The 360 was tragic, to say the least in Japan, where Nintendo and Sony used it as a doormat.
Posted June 19, 2013
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McDon: They only won in US? Nintendo won overall I think. The 360 was tragic, to say the least in Japan, where Nintendo and Sony used it as a doormat.
Xbox came in third in hardware sales, yes. I think the media act like they won for two reasons though: a) American centered journalism, and b) greater software sales.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Xbox One removing DRM(212 posts)(212 posts)
(212 posts)