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Gog.com, will you have a Windows RT App with in app purchases? I expect this would be a little different from your current distribution model, but since you already have the contracts needed to sell these old gems I would think it would be right up your alley.

What is your opinion on:
--App DRM
--Whether Microsoft would allow you to run a modified DosBox emulator on Windows RT
--Whether Microsoft would allow users to play games that were purchased outside of the Windows Store

I know that closed ecosystems are not ideal, but please don't debate that issue in this post

Thanks,
Will from Texas
Post edited July 27, 2012 by willz06jw
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willz06jw: Gog.com, will you have a Windows RT App with in app purchases? I expect this would be a little different from your current distribution model, but since you already have the contracts needed to sell these old gems I would think it would be right up your alley.

What is your opinion on:
--App DRM
--Whether Microsoft would allow you to run a modified DosBox emulator on Windows RT
--Whether Microsoft would allow users to play games that were purchased outside of the Windows Store

I know that closed ecosystems are not ideal, but please don't debate that issue in this post

Thanks,
Will from Texas
It would be moot, none of the games on GOG run on the ARM architecture. There are ARM ports of Dosbox, but I doubt RT will build up enough steam to make it worth GOG's while. And Dosbox likely won't be officially updated to play nice with WinRT anytime soon anyway.
Post edited July 27, 2012 by phanboy4
GOG has already stated many times that they are interested in supporting other platforms, but they don't necessarily have the resources to make that happen anytime soon. Additionally, there is some doubt that their current licensing agreements will even allow for "porting" to platforms other than regular Windows. As for their opinions, I don't wish to speak for them, but I would think that their stance on any kind of DRM is fairly obvious.
Obvious? Is it even DRM if an app provides access to a game and you can't access the game without the app (if this is part of the mandatory architecture of the device)?

Also, I can't imagine a license agreement that says you can't port to different versions of Windows

One more thing: Windows RT has the potential to be a big game changer in the way the IBM PC was to the Apple II. I think it would be short sighted not to be thinking about this platform (if the already completed licensing agreements fit).

Think!, McFly, Think!
While I doesn't work for GOG, I think new versions of windows fall under "maintainance", and not platform.

while DOS game easily solve-able via new version of dosbox, Windows games is a different beast (MM^, MM&, Fallout, etc).

While I hope if it run on windows 7, it won't be a problem on win 8 486, I don't know about the ARM. Might be impossible...
Even some DOS games sounds like a great start for retro gamers like us
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willz06jw: Obvious? Is it even DRM if an app provides access to a game and you can't access the game without the app (if this is part of the mandatory architecture of the device)?

Also, I can't imagine a license agreement that says you can't port to different versions of Windows

One more thing: Windows RT has the potential to be a big game changer in the way the IBM PC was to the Apple II. I think it would be short sighted not to be thinking about this platform (if the already completed licensing agreements fit).

Think!, McFly, Think!
It is obvious, GOG has very clearly said no DRM, ever, no matter what. If Win RT is basically an OS front for DRM'd applications, then no GOG on RT. And yes, a client requirement is DRM, hence why GOG doesn't have one already.

It's not just a different version of Windows, it's an entirely different platform, from the OS to the base hardware. That raises serious questions about what GOG's license agreement might and might not allow. As it is, even if the licenses do allow it, I don't think they have the resources to convert the necessary binaries from Win32 to Win Runtime, not that they even have access to the source code that would be needed for that.

I think you greatly overestimate the potential impact of Windows RT. It is limited to a very specific hardware set, that only Microsoft is confirmed to be manufacturing at the moment (the Surface tablet), it is limited to only applications written using the Windows Runtime API (no existing Windows applications will run on it) and, at the moment, it will only allow applications to be sold/distributed through the Windows 8 Store. Why would anyone even want such a locked down limited device and OS when things like Android are already available and established? MS is late to this game and they showed up with a stinker, just like they did with the Zune and the old Windows Phone OS.
I love the Android approach, but Apple is the only player in the tablet market (currently). By copying Apple's approach and becoming slightly less stringent on the close-ness of the architecture, Microsoft hopes to hit a sweet spot. I expect it will be a hit because of business people alone (Very similar to why the IBM PC became the standard).

The most costly and time consuming part of distributing software is the licensing, not the coding. If this work has already been completed by grandfathering Windows RT in, it would be foolish not to put something out there.

Will
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willz06jw: I love the Android approach, but Apple is the only player in the tablet market (currently).
You what?
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willz06jw: I love the Android approach, but Apple is the only player in the tablet market (currently)
I lol'd. Are you seriously trying to make that claim? Apple does have the largest share of the tablet market, but Android is no slouch with around 30-35% of the total market.
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willz06jw: By copying Apple's approach and becoming slightly less stringent on the close-ness of the architecture, Microsoft hopes to hit a sweet spot. I expect it will be a hit because of business people alone (Very similar to why the IBM PC became the standard).
But they aren't copying Apple's approach. Apple established their "iEcosystem" slowly over time, long before launching a tablet. Microsoft is trying to force their own version of that ecosystem with no established basis for it. There is no precedent in Windows for this kind of closed system and rather than introduce it in a calm manner, thus allowing people to adjust to it the way Apple did, they are jumping right into forcing everyone to use it. And where do you get the idea that Win RT is less closed in the architecture than Apple? Have you even read the hardware requirements for it? About the only flexibility they allow is storage space, RAM and processor speed, exactly the same as Apple.
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willz06jw: The most costly and time consuming part of distributing software is the licensing, not the coding. If this work has already been completed by grandfathering Windows RT in, it would be foolish not to put something out there.
No, not really. While the actual price of licensing might be higher (highly debatable), the more costly is the time and employee effort required to modify and recompile the code on potentially hundreds of games. They can negotiate the licenses for dozens of games at the same time with a single rights holder, but then each of those game need to be ported individually. We are talking hundreds of man-hours worth of work and for a company that only has 20-30 employees at the moment (not all of which are programmers), that is far more than they can really afford.
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willz06jw: What is your opinion on:
...
--Whether Microsoft would allow users to play games that were purchased outside of the Windows Store
Does GOG's opinion matter? If Microsoft has decided that games and apps for WinRT can be bought and installed only through Windows Store, then that's that. No business for GOG there, nor any other non-MS digital store.

As far as I can tell, your question is similar as asking whether GOG would start selling their games for IPads too. Sorry, can't, because IPad apps must be bought through the Apple appstore (unless you jailbreak your iOS device), which automatically excludes GOG (and any others).

Don't forget that GOG is merely a digital store. It doesn't own IP rights to the games here, so if someone would release "GOG games" in WinRT through Windows Store, it would be EA, Ubisoft etc., ie. the companies actually owning the rights to the games in GOG currently.

As for Android, I guess GOG could theoretically sell games there because Android allows installation of software outside GooglePlay. I've bought Android games from Humble Bundles, which I downloaded and installed to the device without GooglePlay.
Post edited July 27, 2012 by timppu
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willz06jw: I love the Android approach, but Apple is the only player in the tablet market (currently)
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cogadh: I lol'd. Are you seriously trying to make that claim? Apple does have the largest share of the tablet market, but Android is no slouch with around 30-35% of the total market.
I think you'll find when you subtract the Kindle Fire from the Android numbers that Android's tablet market share drops to the single digits and looks like the ass that it actually is. Really, most Android tablets really are vastly inferior. Even the Fire leverages Amazon's cloud infrastructure to speed up browsing (much of the Javascript, etc. is executed on their intermediary servers). The Fire leverages a niche that Amazon already had wide open, a low cost, color eReader, they sold Fire to their existing fans, even though it's not eInk and is back lit, people ate it up. But the Fire is literally the only Android tablet that has any market penetration whatsoever (unless something has happened in the last 6 months that I've somehow missed).

Anyone who says the Surface will be a failure shouldn't be listened to, they may end up being correct, but it'll end up being nothing more than happy circumstance, the hardware could be solid, even good, the design certainly is. That thing could be a serious seller. Don't mistake this for another Kin, you can tell when MS actually puts their minds to something, there's a difference, Surface is one of those.

With that all said, yeah, I don't see GOG doing RT if it's even a hint of DRM, that's not what they're about and frankly we've got piles of machines on which to play our games already. The primary buyers of these games aren't probably looking at retro first and the ones that are are more likely to be picking up stuff like the new BG remake, which is really simply targeting mobile (because the PC version is laughably overpriced shit).
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orcishgamer: I think you'll find when you subtract the Kindle Fire from the Android numbers that Android's tablet market share drops to the single digits and looks like the ass that it actually is. Really, most Android tablets really are vastly inferior. Even the Fire leverages Amazon's cloud infrastructure to speed up browsing (much of the Javascript, etc. is executed on their intermediary servers). The Fire leverages a niche that Amazon already had wide open, a low cost, color eReader, they sold Fire to their existing fans, even though it's not eInk and is back lit, people ate it up. But the Fire is literally the only Android tablet that has any market penetration whatsoever (unless something has happened in the last 6 months that I've somehow missed).

Anyone who says the Surface will be a failure shouldn't be listened to, they may end up being correct, but it'll end up being nothing more than happy circumstance, the hardware could be solid, even good, the design certainly is. That thing could be a serious seller. Don't mistake this for another Kin, you can tell when MS actually puts their minds to something, there's a difference, Surface is one of those.

With that all said, yeah, I don't see GOG doing RT if it's even a hint of DRM, that's not what they're about and frankly we've got piles of machines on which to play our games already. The primary buyers of these games aren't probably looking at retro first and the ones that are are more likely to be picking up stuff like the new BG remake, which is really simply targeting mobile (because the PC version is laughably overpriced shit).
Kindle does account for about half of the Android tablets out there, leaving about 15% of the entire tablet market to other Android devices. That is likely to change significantly when the Google tablet finally releases. Pre-orders of that machine recently had to be shut down because demand was so high for it. The Kindle does have the option of using Amazon's cloud, but testing shows that actually creates slower browsing, not faster browsing. That option was the very first thing I disabled when I bought a Kindle and I have not regretted it in the slightest. I am most certainly not a "Amazon fan", I actually had never used any of their services prior to buying a Kindle (seriously, never once). I only bought a Kindle because after researching my options, it was the best bang for my buck. It was not a ridiculously over-priced status symbol like the iPad, nor was it a functionality limited cheap clone like many other Android devices. I could not be happier with the device or its capabilities. It does everything I need or want it to, plus more. I was most impressed by the quality of the games available for it. I expected little more than Angry Birds and its ilk (which it certainly does have plenty of), but what I found were games that were at least PS2/Wii quality in their graphical performance and depth. My only relatively minor complaint is the lack of expandable storage, but, Amazon was trying to push their cloud storage service, so I do understand why they decided to leave that out. So far, the lack of storage flexibility hasn't really hurt me, it just would be nice to be able to throw in a micro SD card if I wanted to. Interestingly, reports indicate the Fire 2 will not only have expandable storage, but will also come in multiple screen sizes.

I have no opinion on the Surface myself, I haven't seen enough of it to formulate one, nor do I think any of the tech pundits have. I would agree that anyone pre-emptively calling a failure is an idiot. However, looking at Microsoft's published requirements for Windows RT, the Surface could end up being the one and only device that makes use of it. Requiring specific design elements like 5 physical buttons for functions like volume control and rotation lock just seems like a step backwards for tablets and I certainly don't see many tablet manufacturers lining up to jump on the RT bandwagon.
Post edited July 27, 2012 by cogadh
its already possible to run virtually every dosbox gog game under android with dosbox turbo, so it only takes a port of dosbox to the windows app store (as long as it passes microsofts rules (not sure if they allow "emulators" like android does) then it will be possible, just not "supported"
Can't you just download and install dosbox while in desktop mode?