Posted March 04, 2012
Elenarie
@tweetelenarie
Elenarie Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Sweden
dr.zli
hi! hi!hi!hi!
dr.zli Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2011
From Serbia
Posted March 04, 2012
kavazovangel: Didn't notice that one before. :D By the way, the OS runs better than Windows 7. Already using VS11 to dev some stuff.
i've been using it for 2 days now, my main concern is with business users. I had trouble implementing even win7 in organizations I cover, I can't imagine how will they react to metro/desktop mashup :/ If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
Elenarie
@tweetelenarie
Elenarie Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Sweden
Posted March 04, 2012
dr.zli: i've been using it for 2 days now, my main concern is with business users. I had trouble implementing even win7 in organizations I cover, I can't imagine how will they react to metro/desktop mashup :/
If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
What kind of applications do these businesses run?If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
Irenaeus.
New User
Irenaeus. Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted March 04, 2012
Our business hasn't even moved over to Windows 7 yet, some of our key software is up to XP only. They certainly wouldn't like programs that clear their RAM when mnimised or focus is shifted, we deal with ~1Gb text files and that would just slow things down.
If the UI is changed loads for Windows 8, how will things like the Win32 API cope with it? I'm guessing that MFC will just receive a new version, and the .NET framework stuff will as well. Anyone tried developing via Visual Studio or Cygwin/GCC yet?
If the UI is changed loads for Windows 8, how will things like the Win32 API cope with it? I'm guessing that MFC will just receive a new version, and the .NET framework stuff will as well. Anyone tried developing via Visual Studio or Cygwin/GCC yet?
Elenarie
@tweetelenarie
Elenarie Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Sweden
Posted March 04, 2012
Irenaeus.: If the UI is changed loads for Windows 8, how will things like the Win32 API cope with it? I'm guessing that MFC will just receive a new version, and the .NET framework stuff will as well. Anyone tried developing via Visual Studio or Cygwin/GCC yet?
Using VS11 Beta right now, doing a WPF 4.5 project for my undergraduate thesis. It works perfectly, VS11 is in every way better and faster than VS2010... by a huge amount. The desktop is everything like Windows 7, but improved very much.
EDIT: Just checked, making MFC applications is available in VS11, so I guess a new version is available.
Post edited March 04, 2012 by kavazovangel
Irenaeus.
New User
Irenaeus. Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted March 04, 2012
kavazovangel: Using VS11 Beta right now, doing a WPF 4.5 project for my undergraduate thesis. It works perfectly, VS11 is in every way better and faster than VS2010... by a huge amount.
The desktop is everything like Windows 7, but improved very much.
EDIT: Just checked, making MFC applications is available in VS11, so I guess a new version is available.
Useful to know, thanks. I skipped VS2010 as 2008 seemed fine for ANSI C/C++ with MFC, which is what I used it for.The desktop is everything like Windows 7, but improved very much.
EDIT: Just checked, making MFC applications is available in VS11, so I guess a new version is available.
dandi8
The Bold
dandi8 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2008
From Poland
Posted March 04, 2012
Going back to orcishgamer's argument how Android does this (auto-managing the closing of app) and it's fine:
ANDROID DOES THIS AND IT'S *NOT* FINE. You want examples why? I'm watching a YouTube video but suddenly remember I have to set up an alarm. I switch to my alarm app, set the alarm and try to go back to the YouTube video. NOPE, YouTube was closed. Have to reload the video and manually find the bit at which I paused. I'm using a Autodesk's SMB and drawing something. Have to switch to the internet app to check something really quick. I then switch back to SMB and NOPE, SMB was closed. I have to redraw whatever I was drawing.
This basically kills multi-tasking with apps.
Need I say more? Auto-closing apps always were and always will be a piece of crap unless we can stop them from auto-closing. And there's also the argument of them not closing at all or in time, which I discussed earlier.
ANDROID DOES THIS AND IT'S *NOT* FINE. You want examples why? I'm watching a YouTube video but suddenly remember I have to set up an alarm. I switch to my alarm app, set the alarm and try to go back to the YouTube video. NOPE, YouTube was closed. Have to reload the video and manually find the bit at which I paused. I'm using a Autodesk's SMB and drawing something. Have to switch to the internet app to check something really quick. I then switch back to SMB and NOPE, SMB was closed. I have to redraw whatever I was drawing.
This basically kills multi-tasking with apps.
Need I say more? Auto-closing apps always were and always will be a piece of crap unless we can stop them from auto-closing. And there's also the argument of them not closing at all or in time, which I discussed earlier.
Post edited March 04, 2012 by dandi8
xyem
Old-ish User
xyem Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted March 04, 2012
orcishgamer: Obviously there will still be times you need to kill something and you still can in Windows 8. It should, however, be rare.
This. It should be rare, but still very possible.
The feeling of not being in control of a device is infuriating, especially when the only control you need to fix the immediate problem is being able to restart what has broken.
Sometimes on my Geeksphone, the browser will stop loading pages. It hasn't locked up so Android won't kill it, but it isn't functioning correctly. The choice on stock Android is to wait and hope it gets closed or cycle the power..
.. but on CyanogenMOD, I can just hold down 'Back', which kills it and then start it up again and carry on what I was doing - in less than 5 seconds.
Gersen
New User
Gersen Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Switzerland
Posted March 04, 2012
orcishgamer: Okay, here's why you shouldn't think that with Windows 8: it's not like that. The entire core idea, methodology, etc., in the very guts of the thing, has been replaced. We're not just getting a UI improvement this time, or a partial rewrite of the existing Windows concepts. It has all changed.
Come on, it has not changed "that much"; tombstoning is not a new concept nor does it requires a complete rewrite of the OS nor WinRT, it makes a lot of sense for mobile OS, very few for a desktop OS, the only reason we see it in Windows 8 is because Ms is afraid of lagging too much behind iOS. But tombstoning is far from perfect, it only works well as long as the amount of time required for an application to save it's state and "die" and the amount needed for it to restart and reload it's state is "negligible" enough; there is a reason why this "feature" is only for Metro apps, because there are no miracles, no magical new concept behind it, it all boils down to storage speed and amount of data to save, it's easy to Tombstone Angry Birds but it's harder or even impossible to tombstone something like VS2010 or Office, at least not before Memristor or any other SSDs successor to comes around, it's true for iOS it's true for Android and it will be true too for Windows 8.
Concerning Metro, and UI changes, I definitely agree with Scott Barnes, Metro is a great idea with huge potential... too bad 99% of the time Microsoft doesn't have a single clue what to do with it.
dr.zli
hi! hi!hi!hi!
dr.zli Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2011
From Serbia
Posted March 04, 2012
dr.zli: i've been using it for 2 days now, my main concern is with business users. I had trouble implementing even win7 in organizations I cover, I can't imagine how will they react to metro/desktop mashup :/
If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
kavazovangel: What kind of applications do these businesses run? If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
After 2 days of extensive use, I really don't feel comfortable using it. "Simplification" of settings leads to network/system admins being frustrated and metro/desktop mashup will only confuse my typical users who don't even use any of the stuff metro is made to exploit :(
Oh well, downgrading licenses time again ;)
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted March 04, 2012
dr.zli: i've been using it for 2 days now, my main concern is with business users. I had trouble implementing even win7 in organizations I cover, I can't imagine how will they react to metro/desktop mashup :/
If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
kavazovangel: What kind of applications do these businesses run? If they left win7 desktop with win8 improved kernel I'd be a day 1 customer, this way I can already see myself staying on win7 ;)
But things are better now, they've moved on... to IE7! Seriously, fuck IE! Versions 9 and 10 appear passable. And while I'm at it, fuck Firefox and it's bullshit, memory gobbling, memory leaking, POS bytes that run it.
dr.zli
hi! hi!hi!hi!
dr.zli Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2011
From Serbia
Posted March 04, 2012
heh Orcish, if you'd only know about what idiots work here in software industry. First of all, all e-banking software requires either IE or windows platform to run. No mac, no other browser. Programs tend not to work on x64 platforms, and business software is either in 16bit or uses stuff so outdated that it's incredible how I even manage to make it run on modern machines. And no, they don't want to spend more euros on new software, training and modernization :(
Few businesses that listen to reason change software for new versions that can (gasp!) run on a proper server and has client/server achitecture but they are like 1 in every 50 :(
Few businesses that listen to reason change software for new versions that can (gasp!) run on a proper server and has client/server achitecture but they are like 1 in every 50 :(
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted March 04, 2012
dr.zli: heh Orcish, if you'd only know about what idiots work here in software industry. First of all, all e-banking software requires either IE or windows platform to run. No mac, no other browser. Programs tend not to work on x64 platforms, and business software is either in 16bit or uses stuff so outdated that it's incredible how I even manage to make it run on modern machines. And no, they don't want to spend more euros on new software, training and modernization :(
Few businesses that listen to reason change software for new versions that can (gasp!) run on a proper server and has client/server achitecture but they are like 1 in every 50 :(
Don't kill me, I wrote a lot of that software:( Few businesses that listen to reason change software for new versions that can (gasp!) run on a proper server and has client/server achitecture but they are like 1 in every 50 :(
Mostly the teller front ends and other sundry items, though I've written some consumer facing stuff too, probably covers around 40% of a really huge market.
I've had people straight out tell me my software sucks and is inflexible. The problem is devs only have so much pull on requirements. It's the sales department and other big, revenue generating areas in banks, etc. that get to design the requirements. Even if my software pulls in an extra 60 million in profit per year (and it does) they get credit.
I said "fuck it" and left that area awhile ago for something I feel makes a difference.
Post edited March 04, 2012 by orcishgamer
Red_Avatar
Be vigilant
Red_Avatar Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From Belgium
Posted March 04, 2012
Well it's all about not risking to step to a new platform and having security holes I think - which is ironic because the older software probably has security holes because it's oudated.
Our bank's ATM still used Windows 95 until a few months ago when it got replaced with a unit with touch screen. Go figure.
Our bank's ATM still used Windows 95 until a few months ago when it got replaced with a unit with touch screen. Go figure.
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted March 04, 2012
Red_Avatar: Well it's all about not risking to step to a new platform and having security holes I think - which is ironic because the older software probably has security holes because it's oudated.
Our bank's ATM still used Windows 95 until a few months ago when it got replaced with a unit with touch screen. Go figure.
You know those Diebold voting machines that sucked at security... what else do they make... Our bank's ATM still used Windows 95 until a few months ago when it got replaced with a unit with touch screen. Go figure.
The answer to your next question is "Yes".