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DarrkPhoenix: You know, given your behavior in threads recently, if you hadn't been here for so long I'd call you out on being a shill. If you want to actually try to address people's concerns about Win8 you might want to try explaining why the way things are being done are a superior solution compared to how things are currently done (e.g. why the hoops one has to jump through to close an app are superior to just having a simple button that one can click on). It'll be much more effective than just rabidly attacking anyone who tries to bring up concerns about Win8.
First. How the fuck did I attack you?

Second. It was a valid question. Think about it, why would you need to close an application?
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Dischord: Personally, I don't care for it, but easy enough to deal with. Business will see Metro like a turd in the punch bowl, and I'm sure MSFT is aware of this.

I'd say play with it, don't get excited, and expect money (business) to win out.
Using Group Policies and stuff to block users from modifying the Start screen, and transferring existing desktop applications to Metro is kind of great for businesses. Workers will only have access to the stuff they need to do their job, and nothing else.
Post edited March 02, 2012 by kavazovangel
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kavazovangel: Second. It was a valid question. Think about it, why would you need to close an application?
Because you're done using it? Because it stopped responding? Because it was badly coded and leaks memory like a sieve? Now, would you care to answer my question? How is having to jump through hoops to close an app a superior solution to just being able to hit a button?

I get that you like Windows 8, but if you want to change the minds of those who don't like what they've seen of it you really need to start explaining why the changes are an improvement over the way that Windows 7 currently does things.
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Arkose: You can close Metro apps in any of the following ways:

* Swipe along the left-hand side of the screen or hold Win+Tab to make the app bar appear, then middle click (or right click and choose Close)
* Drag the app's top edge to the bottom of the screen
* Hit Alt+F4
* Open the Task Manager and hit Delete on the appropriate app
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DarrkPhoenix: Please, please just take a moment to re-read what you wrote and tell me you understand just how fucking insane it is to have to do any of those things just to close a program on a desktop environment. A desktop is not a tablet, a mouse is not a touchscreen, and a UI designed for a tablet with a touchscreen is an absolute clusterfuck when stuck on a desktop with a mouse and keyboard. A one-size-fits-all UI is an absolutely horrible approach, and I expect the Windows 8 adoption rate on the desktop to reflect this.
Odd, I find grabbing the top of the screen and dragging it to the bottom is easier than hitting a close button. Unlike the close button, you can't miss. You can literally do it with your eyes closed.
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DarrkPhoenix: Because you're done using it? Because it stopped responding? Because it was badly coded and leaks memory like a sieve? Now, would you care to answer my question? How is having to jump through hoops to close an app a superior solution to just being able to hit a button?
That is valid for desktop applications, which you can close by pressing the red X button. :p Metro applications, when not used , are smartly managed by the OS and barely use any system resources.
Post edited March 03, 2012 by kavazovangel
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kavazovangel: Using Group Policies and stuff to block users from modifying the Start screen, and transferring existing desktop applications to Metro is kind of great for businesses. Workers will only have access to the stuff they need to do their job, and nothing else.
Responsible admins have always done that.
They aren't interested in anything other than a seamless transition.

Money spent in terms of customizing things that ought to be there right out of the box will not be well received, or even considered.

My largest clients still have a desktop not unlike that you would find in NT 4, and every upgrade they make is to take advantage of under the hood improvements, software/hardware compatibility, and life cycle support.

Quite a bit different than a home user, and quite a bit larger investment as well.
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Snickersnack: Odd, I find grabbing the top of the screen and dragging it to the bottom is easier than hitting a close button. Unlike the close button, you can't miss. You can literally do it with your eyes closed.
That's a valid matter of preference. Thus the smart way to design it would have been to have both the classical option available, as well as the new option (thus allowing people to choose for themselves what they find easier).

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kavazovangel: That is valid for desktop applications, which you can close by pressing the red X button. :p Metro applications, when not used , are smartly managed by the OS and barely use any system resources.
I find it very rare that a computer program is able to manage things more smartly than I am (and even if it does manage to do so the majority of the time, there still needs to be the option to easily tell it to fuck right off in the cases where in trying to "smartly" manage things it's just making itself a royal pain in the ass). If I want a program to remain open, I will leave it open. If I want to close it, I should be able to close it without any hassles.

And you still haven't answered my question.
Post edited March 03, 2012 by DarrkPhoenix
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DarrkPhoenix: And you still haven't answered my question.
Just drag it from top to bottom.
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DarrkPhoenix: That's a valid matter of preference. Thus the smart way to design it would have been to have both the classical option available, as well as the new option (thus allowing people to choose for themselves what they find easier).
The focus of Metro is the content, not controls for the user to play with. That's why things like this are removed, and you don't see many controls in Metro applications.
Post edited March 03, 2012 by kavazovangel
You are still avoiding the primary question I asked: how are the steps one has to take to close apps in metro a superior method to simply being able to click a button to close the app?

This is simply one particular form of an absolutely key question that is asked whenever a new way to doing things is introduced: How is the new way of doing things superior to the old way of doing things? For some reason this always seems to be the toughest question to get an answer to.
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DarrkPhoenix: You are still avoiding the primary question I asked: how are the steps one has to take to close apps in metro a superior method to simply being able to click a button to close the app?
3 controls less on the screen. :p
It seems you have no intention of seriously answering my question, so I'll stop wasting my time.
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DarrkPhoenix: It seems you have no intention of seriously answering my question, so I'll stop wasting my time.
You seem to have no intention of actually reading what I was writing, so, kiss, bye.
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orcishgamer: You're lying about the XBox 360, I have 2. You always started out on a Spotlight channel. Now you actually have a link to games on that starting channel. You can switch channels, just like before, except now I can click or say "XBox Games". The "ads" on your Games channel are relegated to the bottom right hand panel, just like all channels. I don't like that panel, it could be better, but calling the huge panel in the middle to download the latest ME3 demo or whatever an "ad" is stretching it way too thin.
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Fomalhaut30: Not lying, but thanks for thinking I am.

After I log-in my account, the dashboard starts up at a massive ad front and center that cycles between whatever is on sale or being pushed that day. The game in the drive is a much smaller panel to the upper left. The list of games themselves is after Social and two other things. Every section is advertising something.

I didn't buy a 360 to be ad-ed to, I bought it to play games.
When did you buy a 360? Because this is a step up from Spotlight Channel, which is what you used to see when you started your 360. In addition there has always been the option to launch the game in the disk drive immediately on boot. Some 360s even shipped with this as the default setting.

If you're not lying then you're poorly informed or poorly representing the situation. The current launch channel is an improvement. I won't argue that the other channels couldn't be improved by simply deleting the stupid bottom right hand (small) panel which is always an ad. The center channel on other panels shows whatever that channel is about, on the game channel it's normally downloads for new demos or a list of discounted items. I guess you could call that annoying ads, I call that good user interface.
I don't believe in petitions, but voting with the wallet. That worked with Vista. and maybe that will work against Ubuntu Unity as well, if Canonical sees many Ubuntu users switching to e.g. Mint Linux.

I'm still on the fence with Metro UI. Possibly it will make me less productive on desktop PC, but on the other hand maybe I'll think it will be great that it works the same way on tablet and desktop PCs (same argument could be used for Unity, of course...). Thinking of something like ASUS Transformer (which is pretty much a love child of a laptop/netbook and a tablet PC) with Windows 8... In fact, I think future laptops will just have a touchscreen, sometimes detachable just like ASUS. Metro might make that even more feasible than what it is today, who knows?
Post edited March 03, 2012 by timppu
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timppu: I don't believe in petitions, but voting with the wallet. That worked with Vista. and maybe that will work against Ubuntu Unity as well, if Canonical sees many Ubuntu users switching to e.g. Mint Linux.

I'm still on the fence with Metro UI. Possibly it will make me less productive on desktop PC, but on the other hand maybe I'll think it will be great that it works the same way on tablet and desktop PCs (same argument could be used for Unity, of course...). Thinking of something like ASUS Transformer (which is pretty much a love child of a laptop/netbook and a tablet PC) with Windows 8... In fact, I think future laptops will just have a touchscreen, sometimes detachable just like ASUS. Metro might make that even more feasible than what it is today, who knows?
Welcome to the clever club. Yep. That's how MS sees the future. Their prediction rate isn't very good but it's significantly above zero so we'll see how it pans out.