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Zeewolf: ...
This is not a typical publisher deal where the publisher pays the developer to make the game. In those cases, the publisher has all the control. But this is CD Projekt making a game with their own money, and then getting third party publishers to distribute it in markets they can't otherwise reach (retail only). A very different type of deal.
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I wonder if there are any sources backing up this statement.
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sethsez: It's not really a new one. The unfortunate reality is that PC games are more complex than ever technologically, they're more expensive than ever, and yet demos are becoming more rare than ever. Combine all of those and you've got serious incentive to make sure something works properly before shelling out money, and fewer legal ways to do so than ever before.
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Delixe: Sorry I don't buy that. Part in parcel of being a PC gamer is knowing about PC hardware. Most people should know that looking at the minimum requirements will produce a a barely running game. It will work but it won't be pretty and you will probably get low frame rates. If you have doubts the game will run you don't buy it until you upgrade your hardware.

I have no sympathy for anyone who complains the game wont run on an Atom with Intel HD graphics when the MINIMUM specs are an 8800 and a dual core.
Crysis 2 requirements specs list my processor as being under the minimum, yet the demo ran fine. Everything else I have it's ok. Unless it's by far behind you will most likely be able to play it. Trying beforehand is most definately worth it. Especially since I could always get most games on my PS3 if the PC doesn't run them.
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Trilarion: I wonder if there are any sources backing up this statement.
You know that CD Project are distributing it themselves online and in Eastern Europe?

From the original press release:

"The company also announced distribution agreements for various territories, Atari Inc. (North America), 1C-SoftClub/Snowball Studios (Russia) and CD Projekt (Poland and Central Europe); negotiations for Western European distribution are in progress."

Notice "distribution agreements". They're in control.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by Zeewolf
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Zeewolf: Not really.

This is not a typical publisher deal where the publisher pays the developer to make the game. In those cases, the publisher has all the control. But this is CD Projekt making a game with their own money, and then getting third party publishers to distribute it in markets they can't otherwise reach (retail only). A very different type of deal.

And yes, they can tell the publisher what DRM to use. This happens relatively often with these kinds of distribution deals. TrackMania-dev Nadeo were the ones who decided their game would use StarForce, for instance. Not any of the publishers. Just one example.
But it's the retail copy you're most mad about. :) Also you're making the assumption from our current unknown that the default should be that it was CD Projekt's decision when CD Projekt has stated its dislike for DRM AND CD Projekt is offering it for DRM-free on the one distribution channel it has control over. I would say it be more likely that it's the publisher's making the decision. Besides which as Trilarion noted this provides the perfect test case for DRM versus DRM-free. If you really feel strongly get the DRM-free version from GOG! Consider it as a test case for SCIENCE!
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Trilarion: I wonder if there are any sources backing up this statement.
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Zeewolf: You know that CD Project are distributing it themselves online and in Eastern Europe?
Again that may be the deal they cut with the publishers. CD project is the publisher for Eastern Europe and GOG.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by crazy_dave
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lukipela: Is there a demo for TW2?
Well, not yet. No idea if one is planned.

So I guess that is one excuse, even if it is a lousy one.

I doubt the availability of a demo would affect piracy rates in any significant way (although there is no way to actually check that).

If you read reviews, watch the gameplay videos and so on, you should be able to get more than enough information to make a decision to purchase the game or not.

I never play demos these days, if I'm unsure of a game I wait until the price drops or I can get a friends opinion or something.
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Trilarion: I wonder if there are any sources backing up this statement.
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Zeewolf: You know that CD Project are distributing it themselves online and in Eastern Europe?

From the original press release:

"The company also announced distribution agreements for various territories, Atari Inc. (North America), 1C-SoftClub/Snowball Studios (Russia) and CD Projekt (Poland and Central Europe); negotiations for Western European distribution are in progress."

Notice "distribution agreements". They're in control.
That doesn't mean they are in control of everything. Just places they have control over.
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Zeewolf: You know that CD Project are distributing it themselves online and in Eastern Europe?

From the original press release:

"The company also announced distribution agreements for various territories, Atari Inc. (North America), 1C-SoftClub/Snowball Studios (Russia) and CD Projekt (Poland and Central Europe); negotiations for Western European distribution are in progress."

Notice "distribution agreements". They're in control.
Ah, thanks for the info. Now germany feels kind of westernish and centralish to me, so I still wonder where my country stands. What about japan? Anyway, GOG will be worldwide DRM free, so I am happy.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by Trilarion
AND CD project is offering it for DRM-free on the one distribution channel it has control over. I would say it be more likely that it's the publisher's making the decision.
I don't buy that. Note that there are at least three different publishers working with CD Projekt on worldwide distribution. CD Projekt themselves being the fourth. And the DRM is the same on all retail versions.

Trilarion: Don't know, they might have gotten a deal for Japan later. This was from when the game was first announced. Namco Bandai is the western european distributor, maybe they do Japan too.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by Zeewolf
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Andy_Panthro: I doubt the availability of a demo would affect piracy rates in any significant way (although there is no way to actually check that).
I have seen people justfy piracy even when there is a demo simply by saying a demo isn't long enough to know if a game is good or not. Rubbish excuse if you ask me and certainly not an excuse to pirate the full game.
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Zeewolf: I don't buy that. Note that there are at least three different publishers working with CD Projekt on worldwide distribution. CD Projekt themselves being the fourth. And the DRM is the same on all retail versions.
You should be glad it's just SecuROM. Atari and especially Namco are big fans of DRM. Namco even said Ubisoft had the right idea with the always online DRM.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by Delixe
AND CD project is offering it for DRM-free on the one distribution channel it has control over. I would say it be more likely that it's the publisher's making the decision.
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Zeewolf: I don't buy that. Note that there are at least three different publishers working with CD Projekt on worldwide distribution. CD Projekt themselves being the fourth. And the DRM is the same on all retail versions.
Yes and that may be the deal they cut for the retail version - in fact that would be a perfect explanation for it. They need to use the other distributor's access to get the physical product out to countries around the world. To do two or more separate retail versions would not be particularly reasonable from a business standpoint. They cut a deal with the publishers who insisted on using DRM - all of them do, especially their current partners, but that wouldn't change from publisher to publisher. Atari and Namco put DRM on their stuff and like it, it is more reasonable that DRM on the retail version is at their insistence.

Besides which I quite like this since we have a (relatively) controlled experiment in DRM and consumer preference. Consider how you buy to be a vote in determining the future and necessity of DRM.

PS I should note that I am not planning on buying the Witcher 2 but that's because I don't play RPGs :) and buying a AAA title new simply to support DRM-free gaming is not how I want to spend my money. Now if they released a great new AAA DRM-free flight-sim or space-sim or 4X strategy game, that would be different :P
Post edited April 15, 2011 by crazy_dave
10 bucks say that GOG's release will be available for download on release day. ;)
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crazy_dave: Yes and that may be the deal they cut for the retail version - in fact that would be a perfect explanation for it. They need to use the other distributor's access to get the physical product out to countries around the world. To do two or more separate retail versions would not be particularly reasonable from a business standpoint. They cut a deal with the publishers who insisted on using DRM - all of them do, especially their current partners, but that wouldn't change from publisher to publisher. Atari and Namco put DRM on their stuff and like it, it is more reasonable that DRM on the retail version is at their insistence.
Heh, to me it seems you're just searching for an explanation that doesn't involve this being CD Projekt's decision. :-)
Post edited April 15, 2011 by Zeewolf
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lukipela: I use demos to make sure my laptop will run the game.

minimum specs dont work well for laptops. if you look at my specs, i should be able to run just about anything just fine, but alas..i cannot.
So if there isn't a demo, you don't buy the game, I can understand that, but surely there's no need for people to pirate it?

Plenty of other games out there instead.
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crazy_dave: Yes and that may be the deal they cut for the retail version - in fact that would be a perfect explanation for it. They need to use the other distributor's access to get the physical product out to countries around the world. To do two or more separate retail versions would not be particularly reasonable from a business standpoint. They cut a deal with the publishers who insisted on using DRM - all of them do, especially their current partners, but that wouldn't change from publisher to publisher. Atari and Namco put DRM on their stuff and like it, it is more reasonable that DRM on the retail version is at their insistence.
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Zeewolf: Heh, to me it seems you're just searching for an explanation that doesn't involve this being CD Projekt's decision. :-)
Nope. To me it makes perfect sense that this is the deal they struck with the publishers. It is in fact exactly how I expected it to be done when it was first announced that it would be here on GOG DRM-free and available elsewhere. Elsewhere would be DRM'ed because elsewhere is always DRM'ed for major releases.

In fact what you're arguing for doesn't make any sense to me. If they were capable of doing multiple retail distribution runs some DRM-free others not why on earth wouldn't they do it in Eastern Europe? They are as you say the distributor and publisher for that region! The GOG and retail copy aren't in competition since they are the same company! If they want to customers to shun buying the retail version, even in Eastern Europe, why create a special retail version and offer extras with it? Why not restrict all extras to GOG? Their distribution partners have a history of putting DRM on products and stating how much they like DRM. CD Projekt has a history of saying how much they dislike DRM and is offering it on GOG DRM-free. It just makes so much more sense for the other publishers to have demanded DRM on the retail version.

I can of course be wrong, but even so, they've given you a DRM-free option, vote for it.
Post edited April 15, 2011 by crazy_dave
Well, the problem is, some of us want a product in our hands. I want all the stuff that comes with the collectors edition. Not its digital version (artbook, world map etc.) And we will still have to suffer drm (which is not that bad, and knowing CDProject, they will patch it out, eventually)