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BladderOfDoom: Exactly. Suggesting one way of getting it is cruel and the other is not, especially when they both require the death of something living, is a viewpoint I will never understand. Maybe people would think twice if we started calling crops kitten plants.

I would suggest that most plants do not actively kill their source of nutrition, but survives just as well off plants and animals that has died of other causes (old age, for example).
That said, I very seldom eat vegetarian.
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Miaghstir: That said, I very seldom eat vegetarians.

Naah, they're too skinny.
Post edited February 18, 2010 by Zeewolf
Gotta say, that video got me quite upset about the way they treat the animals, and really, some of the cold-blooded cruelty of some of the people treated them so bad that I would probably want to kick his face in if I saw it being done. However, I'm still not sure if this is the norm in all countries, and I'm sure that there are lots of slaughterhouses that treats the animals well. Either it's just me just wanting to be blissfully ignorant, or the video shows you the most extreme cases, just like showing the most extreme cases of human cruelty in war. If everyone treated eachother like the way the militias and revolutionaries treat civilians down in some south-african countries, or Burma and so forth, I would certainly lose interest in living at all.
So yes, if what was shown on that video was the norm and every slaughterhouse on the entire planet was like that, I'd certainly stop eating meat. But I'm fairly certain it's the most extreme cases being shown.
I particularly hated how the seriously bleeding and screaming horribly in agony, while desperately trying to get on its feet, but failing because the floor was so slippery with the animals' blood and guts. Or how some guy almost deliberately threw the turkey as hard as he could into the cage, sometimes missing. Some of the people seemed to be having fun doing this. If this treatment was done while I was watching, I'd probably pick up the shotgun and shoot his face. It was seriously sick.
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Miaghstir: That said, I very seldom eat vegetarians.
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Zeewolf: Naah, they're too skinny.

I wish we were :<
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anjohl: Actually, PETA/Green Peace ARE, and should be legally considared terrorists.
We are moving to declare them a terrorist group in Canada.
Vegetarianism is incorrect. I can have you prove it to yourself easily:
1) Open your mouth. Feel your back teeth.
2) Repeat the above, but feel the front teeth.
Vegetable eating animals do not have canines and incisors for tearing/ripping meat. Ergo, by design (Also backed up by a wealth of scientific study), humans are meant to be true omnivores.
I mean, you can choose to eat only vegetables, but your lifestyle choice *is* an illogical one, and don't turn it into a religion.
The worst thing anyone with an irrational position can do is recruit.

Humans have incisors. I'm not denying that. As I said before, there is a long social and biological background to our eating meat and I understand why people don't want to be vegetarian. I'm still alive 8 years later though, so it is not a biological necessity for humans to eat it. We also have grocery stores and vitamin supplements that allow us to craft unique diets. A person actually can live a healthy life without meat. Don't try to peg me as irrational.
Also, while you're pointing to your teeth, let me also point out some other things in our heads: we have an amygdala which helps us to have emotions, we have mirror neurons which provide the capacity for empathy, and we even have a nice big frontal cortex for reasoning and making moral decisions based on our values. I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. But I will say this-- You are omnivore. You have a choice.
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StarEye: Or how some guy almost deliberately threw the turkey as hard as he could into the cage, sometimes missing. Some of the people seemed to be having fun doing this. If this treatment was done while I was watching, I'd probably pick up the shotgun and shoot his face. It was seriously sick.

I wouldn't say this sort of thing is the norm because it's usually exact machinery doing the job of killing, but at the same time, slaughterhouse jobs don't really attract our nation's best and brightest. There are quite a lot of stupid people and unkind people that work there. Some of what you are seeing is how they deal with situations where the machines fail. That's not to say everyone is an idiot there, but when the job is the dregs, well, so are a lot of the employees. I wouldn't expect a lot of these people to be doing what's best for the animals, especially when they are hired to kill them. If you have too much sympathy and compassion for animals it's really hard to work there anyways.
Post edited February 18, 2010 by jungletoad
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anjohl: Actually, PETA/Green Peace ARE, and should be legally considared terrorists.
We are moving to declare them a terrorist group in Canada.
Vegetarianism is incorrect. I can have you prove it to yourself easily:
1) Open your mouth. Feel your back teeth.
2) Repeat the above, but feel the front teeth.
Vegetable eating animals do not have canines and incisors for tearing/ripping meat. Ergo, by design (Also backed up by a wealth of scientific study), humans are meant to be true omnivores.
I mean, you can choose to eat only vegetables, but your lifestyle choice *is* an illogical one, and don't turn it into a religion.
The worst thing anyone with an irrational position can do is recruit.
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Protoss: Why don't you go out then to kill the animals you want to eat with your bare hands and mouth, just like every animal does?
And yes, PETA and GP sometimes behave like terrorists.

Incorrect. With that logic, you should be talking to me face to face, which would entail not talking out of your ass.
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anjohl: Incorrect. With that logic, you should be talking to me face to face, which would entail not talking out of your ass.

why should he? people like you are at least as frustrating to talk to as rabid PETA members, and twice as annoying with your faux-scientific arguments.
"Against animal cruelty"; good for all.
Being a vegetarian; good for you.
PETA as an organisation; bad.
Taking your ideals to stupid extremes; bad.
Forcing your ideas on others; bad.
Doing so using terrorist methods; illegal.
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RakeeshSorrel: "Against animal cruelty"; good for all.
Being a vegetarian; good for you.
PETA as an organisation; bad.
Taking your ideals to stupid extremes; bad.
Forcing your ideas on others; bad.
Doing so using terrorist methods; illegal.

Teaching a cow to enjoy the taste of hamburger; priceless.
Johnny Weir 'Loves Wearing Dead Animals,' Calls Animal Rights Activists 'Crazy Fur People'
[url=http://www.stylelist.com/2010/02/17/johnny-weir-loves-wearing-dead-animals-calls-animal-rights-activists-crazy-fur-people?icid=main|main|dl3|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stylelist.com%2F2010%2F02%2F17%2Fjohnny-weir-loves-wearing-dead-animals-calls-animal-rights-activists-crazy-fur-people]http://www.stylelist.com/2010/02/17/johnny-weir-loves-wearing-dead-animals-calls-animal-rights-activists-crazy-fur-people?icid=main|main|dl3|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stylelist.com%2F2010%2F02%2F17%2Fjohnny-weir-loves-wearing-dead-animals-calls-animal-rights-activists-crazy-fur-people[/url]
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BladderOfDoom: Exactly. Suggesting one way of getting it is cruel and the other is not, especially when they both require the death of something living, is a viewpoint I will never understand. Maybe people would think twice if we started calling crops kitten plants.

Nah should be more specific, Kitten carrots, puppy potatoes, bunny broccoli
I'm vegetarian. I fucking hate peta.
I'm an omnivore who loves cheese. I hate techno
Post edited February 18, 2010 by Aliasalpha
Sadly, as always, there's truth that gets lost in the transition (the need to shock/sensationalise/oppose). We do eat too much meat. As animals we are much like apes. The hunter/gatherer model is still likely the one that we are - biologically - built for. That means that a diet of mostly fruit, vegetables and seeds with meat the exception, not the rule, is what is "natural". It was still the case for most people (except the rich) up to the early part of the 1900s, too. Most working class/lower middle class did not eat meat daily.
The core problem, however, is that there are just too many of us. It's too hot a topic to often be touched upon, but a sustainable earth needs less population. Mass production in agriculture is only a result of this planets overpopulation. As is our unsustainable energy use, resource use, etc. Problem with that one is, of course, that there's no good solution. Except hoping that population growth in "developing countries" will eventually go negative, as it does in developed countries.
That mass production in agriculture is not a good idea is pretty damn well established by now. More diseases in mono-cultures or with animals living in close quarters. More importantly: higher likelihood of new diseases developing, which in turn might affect humans. Desertification, loss of soil quality, increased acidity of soil, eutrophication of water and along that line poisoning of water supplies ... etc, etc. Bad practices when agriculture turns into a money making scheme. At it's best agriculture has the potential to be a closed circuit system, that is, one that really actually relies on a complete resource cycle, unlike any other "industry".
I'm a cheesarian. And I love Nutella.