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slash11: With DRM you do not own the game you just rent it.
Technically you don't own any physical game either, merely the media it came on and a license to use it.
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slash11: With DRM you do not own the game you just rent it.
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Gremmi: Technically you don't own any physical game either, merely the media it came on and a license to use it.
Technically you do not need to activate a game online and you can sell it again if it has no DRM. Would you also buy a movie on dvd that you can only watch 2 times ? Of course not.....
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Gremmi: Technically you don't own any physical game either, merely the media it came on and a license to use it.
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slash11: Technically you do not need to activate a game online and you can sell it again if it has no DRM. Would you also buy a movie on dvd that you can only watch 2 times ? Of course not.....
Well, historically that last part has actually happened, they invented a DVD type that degrades after opening the packet and gave you 48 hours before it expired and became useless.

But it still doesn't really change the point that from a technical perspective nothing has really changed. You never wholly own a game, just the license to play it from the media you purchased. The only difference is that they now have the ability to enforce the terms of that license.
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slash11: Technically you do not need to activate a game online and you can sell it again if it has no DRM. Would you also buy a movie on dvd that you can only watch 2 times ? Of course not.....
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Gremmi: Well, historically that last part has actually happened, they invented a DVD type that degrades after opening the packet and gave you 48 hours before it expired and became useless.

But it still doesn't really change the point that from a technical perspective nothing has really changed. You never wholly own a game, just the license to play it from the media you purchased. The only difference is that they now have the ability to enforce the terms of that license.
The real difference is that no one has to accept it and the result is: bankcruptcy
Then things will change fast, very fast...
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Gremmi: Well, historically that last part has actually happened, they invented a DVD type that degrades after opening the packet and gave you 48 hours before it expired and became useless.

But it still doesn't really change the point that from a technical perspective nothing has really changed. You never wholly own a game, just the license to play it from the media you purchased. The only difference is that they now have the ability to enforce the terms of that license.
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slash11: The real difference is that no one has to accept it and the result is: bankcruptcy
Then things will change fast, very fast...
A nice thought, but in reality that's not going to happen. The vast majority of people simply don't care enough.
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sammyf70: Oh, but I *DO* store the login information. It's just the steam client who happens to forget them from time to time, for no obvious reasons.
Oh, that. Yeah, that makes me want to hurt someone too. Usually happens when the internet's down. Thankfully that's rare.
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slash11: The real difference is that no one has to accept it and the result is: bankcruptcy
Then things will change fast, very fast...
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Gremmi: A nice thought, but in reality that's not going to happen. The vast majority of people simply don't care enough.
The majority will wake up as soon as they can't play their games anymore of course. When i see the last numbers of some game companies then we will see...
What i ask myself is the following: The business report from microsoft with the xbox 360. The losses are so huge that i ask myself why they do not scratch it completely. As an investor i would demand that they stop their project xbox 360. Good that i do not have shares from microsoft atm.
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slash11: The majority will wake up as soon as they can't play their games anymore of course.
But the thing is, that doesn't happen for the vast majority of people either. The people who do run into issues are a minority. A vocal one (after all, when was the last someone started loudly going 'YES, MY GAME IS WORKING'?) but a minority nonetheless.

Plus in that situation it wouldn't suddenly see the end to DRM, it would just mean they'd reassess it and probably dial it back a bit. Going from 3 activations in a lifetime to 3 activations per month, etc etc.
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slash11: The majority will wake up as soon as they can't play their games anymore of course.
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Gremmi: But the thing is, that doesn't happen for the vast majority of people either. The people who do run into issues are a minority. A vocal one (after all, when was the last someone started loudly going 'YES, MY GAME IS WORKING'?) but a minority nonetheless.

Plus in that situation it wouldn't suddenly see the end to DRM, it would just mean they'd reassess it and probably dial it back a bit. Going from 3 activations in a lifetime to 3 activations per month, etc etc.
With not working i mean that you can play them only for 1 year or so and then they turn them off. That is no problem with DRM.
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slash11: The losses are so huge that i ask myself why they do not scratch it completely. As an investor i would demand that they stop their project xbox 360. Good that i do not have shares from microsoft atm.
Erm, you are aware that the Entertainment and Devices Division revenue went up 55% in Q2 of this year mainly due to strong Kinect and Xbox 360 sales, right?
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slash11: With not working i mean that you can play them only for 1 year or so and then they turn them off. That is no problem with DRM.
Until that happens (and there's a big if there) most people won't give a crap; and even after that, if the price is good, most people still won't care.
Post edited July 07, 2011 by AndrewC
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slash11: With not working i mean that you can play them only for 1 year or so and then they turn them off. That is no problem with DRM.
I'm not aware of any such games that do that.
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slash11: The losses are so huge that i ask myself why they do not scratch it completely. As an investor i would demand that they stop their project xbox 360. Good that i do not have shares from microsoft atm.
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AndrewC: Erm, you are aware that the Entertainment and Devices Division revenue went up 55% in Q2 of this year mainly due to strong Kinect and Xbox 360 sales, right?
When i count the losses they have done with the xbox 360 over the years; it is simple incredible. Only microsoft can afford this with their office monopoly products.
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slash11: With not working i mean that you can play them only for 1 year or so and then they turn them off. That is no problem with DRM.
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Gremmi: I'm not aware of any such games that do that.
Not yet. As soon as they have enough market power things will change fast....
Post edited July 07, 2011 by slash11
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slash11: When i count the losses they have done with the xbox 360 over the years; it is simple incredible. Only microsoft can afford this with their office monopoly products.
And Sony. The only one who hasn't launched a console at a loss at the start was Nintendo. That's standard practice.

As of why they would do such a thing? Because they want a brand people recognize and relate to, and they want to have a strong presence in your living room where they can add other services besides game for pay (such as Netflix, Xbox Live, etc.)

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slash11: Not yet. As soon as they have enough market power things will change fast....
I doubt that, but it remains to be seen. Even so, most people will never care. Do you really think that I play a game I spent $5 on more than once?

The truth is, the number of people who replay games is extremely small.
I'm sorry, but if we're going to discuss a market failing based on a hypothetical scenario that almost certainly isn't going to happen, then I'm going to politely bow out of this discussion.
Post edited July 07, 2011 by Gremmi
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slash11: When i count the losses they have done with the xbox 360 over the years; it is simple incredible. Only microsoft can afford this with their office monopoly products.
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AndrewC: And Sony. The only one who hasn't launched a console at a loss at the start was Nintendo. That's standard practice.

As of why they would do such a thing? Because they want a brand people recognize and relate to, and they want to have a strong presence in your living room where they can add other services besides game for pay (such as Netflix, Xbox Live, etc.)

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slash11: Not yet. As soon as they have enough market power things will change fast....
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AndrewC: I doubt that, but it remains to be seen. Even so, most people will never care. Do you really think that I play a game I spent $5 on more than once?

The truth is, the number of people who replay games is extremely small.
Reliable statistics and numbers of the claim that not many people replay games ?

When i see the huge losses by Microsoft and Sony i think that a console crash is only a matter of time. The PC cannot crash because games are only an extra.