Johnmourby: I don't think Duke 3D has good combat for instance (That shotgun sucks)

Crosmando: It's certainly preferable to shooters with no key items, where every door is open-able (or blast-able) and there's no need to actually search, backtrack to find keys or find secret locations with armor/ammo. It's a hell of a lot less "mindless" than the shooters of today. Crosmando: Yes, but those "constantly new areas" are just new corridors, it's just providing pretty new scenery to kill new enemies in. Doom map design are actually brilliantly designed because they are used to such great effect, finishing a level is not just killing the monsters, it's also beating the maze by finding the items.

In any event, the CoD model of new areas is ultimately doomed, because it relies of such expensive art assets to be constantly churned out, instead of using smart map design so areas are reused as the player must explore to find keys.

I honestly can't believe anyone would have such a terrible opinion on the matter, modern corridor shooters don't have mazes with items because the audiences doesn't have the attention span or the desire to do anything but keep shooting Russians with an occasional change of scenery.

F4LL0UT: You lost me right there. For me there's few games where blowing an enemy away with a shotgun is as satisfying as in Duke 3D.

Johnmourby: The question is where do we take it from here? will you call me names or cast doubt on my intelligence/gaming skill? Or can we just except we had different reacts to the same thing?

F4LL0UT: I don't think we have to take it anywhere. I just love everything about Duke Nukem 3D, especially the shotgun, you don't, okay - where's the problem? :p

Leroux: I didn't even realize it's out already, thanks for the heads-up!

Elmofongo: I would rather play GTA 5 my personal 2013 Game of the Year heck I would rather play The Last of Us.

Johnmourby: I'm so sick of people saying Bioshock Infinite is shit, because it's not. It's really not. I think it's funny that as of Titianfall people are worrying about the death of single player FPS games when it's clear we don't wont them.

Okay, I get that you can't force someone to like what you like. I don't think Duke 3D has good combat for instance (That shotgun sucks) But I'm tried of people saying that it's bad like there's no way that an intelligent person could disagree with them whilst giving no facts to back up there opinion. So I'm going to give ten reasons as to why I liked Bioshock Infinite.

1. Choice: I liked the fact that rather than just being stuck with Stats weapons and powers as they are you could alter them according to your playstyle. You're given a shield near the start of the game but rather than being forced to rely on it you could totally ignore it in favour of putting all your stats into health. if a weapon felt good but had to slow a reload time you could always upgrade it to make it more affective. between vigour traps and a sold melee attack there are pros to both rushing straight into to thick of it or waiting for the enemy to come to you.

2. Skylines: This was a feature that was heavy hyped up before realise and feel short as a game changer. But for me at least that doesn't change the fact that it's just plain fun to use. Finding secrets or little tactically advantageous spots with them has it's charm. Pulling off a Skyline strike has never lost it's appeal for me, Particularly if the guy on the other guy never saw it coming. Taking out enemies who are on the skyline and seeing the plummet to earth or into the abyss always makes me smile.

3. Combat: when people say Infinite has terrible combat I'm left baffled as to whether they played the same game as me. While there are FPS games with better combat Infinite is way better than most. You have the option of iron sites for more powerful shots but unlike most modern shooters you aren't penalised for not using them, your guns still work fine when free aiming. Deferent vigors affect different enemies. Some are fire-proof, others shrug off electricity but each one has a weakness.
Weapons all have their uses defined by ware you are.
The shotgun is a beast up close but getting there is hard. The grenade launcher requires even ground but will kill almost anything. Mowing down five enemies with the crank gun is near as satisfying as using the BFG 9000.
At all times you have a choice between guns, vigors, tears and mêlée combat meaning that you're really out of creative options.
Be it Bioshock, Bulletstorm or Shadow Warrior There's nothing I like more than having a host of options and needing to make use of them all.

4. Customisation: It's a small point but I do love picking up gear and seeing all the different affects they can have. The one that freezes your shield when mounting the skylines can be a life savoir but the one that randomly turns ammo flaming or electrical is such fun to watch.

5. Enemies: A good fps gives you interesting enemies to fight and Infinite delivers. While you have petty grunts who are so easy to kill you almost feel sorry for them there are far more dangerous enemies who require certain strategies and your full attention to beat. And when you have these mixed together you need to think fast as to who you take down first. Each type is given a memorable into and they all have personality. I've become quite fond of them.

6. Story and Characters: Well this is the big one. It's been years since I enjoyed a non-horror story this much. Largely because unlike most modern adventure fiction the characters don't permanently talk in snark to seem "mature" or "edgy". The are both visually and narratively distinctive, with clear motivations beyond "I'm evil because the plot needs a bad guy". Booker Dewitt probably the most well crafted protagonist in an fps game yet (Though to be fair, most of his competition are mutes) and even when doing the wrong things it's hard not to feel sympathy for him. I love the Bioshock story method of working from the inside out. Getting to know an interesting protagonist and then using him to show case an interesting world. Rather than the Hollywood tactic of saying "Here's a total prick who you must root for because his character arc (to be slightly less of a prick) will take up most of the running time"

7. Audio logs: If you belong to the Totalbiscuit school of thought that gameplay is that matters in a game and everything else is a waste of time you of course hate audio logs. But As some one raised on audio books finding these thing are a joy to me. it's like having a great audio book inside a great game, They are all extremely well acted. They can be funny, sad or down right chilling.
And unlike some games (Doom 3) each one has it's role it the plot.

8. Music: while the combat music is underwhelming the rest of the game has a wonderful sound design that feels legitimately old-school. That would be enough but the game as several "de-makes" of note worth pops songs made to fit the 1912 era. A concept I'd always wanted to "see" tried out. That would have been enough just as a fun experiment but there is even a in story explanation for the anachronistic music that ties into the main plot. I love it!

9. Exploration: This one probably raised a few eyebrows. And yes while sadly this game is too linear for it's own good that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy every second of exploration this game had to offer. Whether it was scavenging for cash and heath, finding audio logs, reading the posters, eavesdropping on the people of Columbia or finding weird secrets like the dolls tea party I enjoyed every second I spent searching out the stuff that wasn't straight in front of you. My greatest regret with this game was that it couldn't be open world.
It sounds like Ken Levine might have taken the criticism of Infinite's linearity on-board. Hopefully his next game will have more exploration.

10. Graphics and Design: "Graphics don't make a bad game good", I agree. That's why I'm putting it at the end ;)
I normally don't let graphics affect my judgement (or try not to) but that doesn't change the fact that Infinite looks gorgeous. It's one of the best looking FPS games out there. Not just thanks to the graphics but due to it's art style that manages to be stylised without making the characters look inhuman. The baptismal church makes me shiver a little every time. Graphics and style can't save a game but with the exception of text adventures all games have to be looked at and Infinite is a game I love to look at.

One more thing. Please don't tell me to play System Shock 2, I have. I enjoyed it, but after all the hype from comments I read saying how it wipes the floor with Bioshock I found the game rather disappointing.
I can't respect the "depth" of a game where most enemies can be beaten with the starting wrench. SS2's depth is the same as Bioshock's, just way fiddlier and more restrictive.

I can't make you like Bioshock Infinite any more than you can convince me that Hexen wasn't a dull, monotonous grind for me that I had almost no fun with.
I know this game isn't perfect. but I love it. What flaws it has feel small and irrelevant and to me.
But I hope I've convinced some of you that it is possible to like Bioshock Infinite without first suffering severe brain damage!

Thanks for reading?

Johnmourby: Apparently none. You did say "you lost me at...." Implying that nothing I said had any mean or worth to you from there. And seems sad to me this difference of opinion meant that, when I was trying to say that the guy with the unpopular opinions can still have good reasons for them.

Johnmourby: I get the feeling that people aren't reading my post but just using this thread as an excuse to vent their own opinions on Infinite rather than trying to start a meaningful dialog on how game quality is treated as objective. But as you don't care about what I have to say I'll just say fuck The Last of Us.
Never played it, and after all the "LoU is better than Bioshock Infinite" I don't think I want to. There's no way a game that gets such universal praise can be anything but a huge disappointment. (Besides it's on the PS3, and I don't use consoles. So ditto for Murder innocent people sim 5).

There. aren't broad, thoughtless, dismissive statements fun?

lukaszthegreat: they do have checkpoints mate....