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General discussion (archive)Why I like (and will defend) Bioshock Infinite(50 posts)(50 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 26, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: Imagine if far cry series and crysis series had those damn annoying Checkpoints!! I hate games where you can't save where ever the HELL you like! I hate having to do the same half hour segment again! I HATE IT, HATE IT, HATE IT!
they do have checkpoints mate....
Posted March 26, 2014
Bioshock Infinite is shit.
Posted March 26, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg
Posted March 26, 2014
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GabiMoro: I'm playing Bioshock Infinite right now (only the base game), I think I'm near the end.

Does the first post contains spoilers? :)
Don't worry no spoilers.
Posted March 26, 2014
uh, i actually haven't heard any bad word on Bioshock infinite yet, not counting occasional gaming hipster that tries very hard to distance themselves from the masses :)
Posted March 26, 2014
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GabiMoro: I'm playing Bioshock Infinite right now (only the base game), I think I'm near the end.

Does the first post contains spoilers? :)
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Johnmourby: Don't worry no spoilers.
Thanks, I already read it, except for part 6. Story and Characters.
I kinda agree with you but somehow, after all the 9 out of 10 ratings I expected more. Perhaps the end will change that.
Post edited March 26, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted March 26, 2014
I believe the new dlc is pretty awesome and ties up any loose strands, I got it with a season pass but haven't downloaded it yet.
Posted March 26, 2014
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Niggles: FWIW arent 99% of FPS games supposed to be mindless+linear?
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Crosmando: Mindless? Perhaps. Linear? Maybe if you mean that "doing one level and then progressing to the next level" is linear, but in my view any good FPS has reasonably open map design, ie stuff like this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061119200337/doom/images/d/dd/E1M6dots.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070128082129/doom/images/2/2e/E1M7dots.png

Also Bioshock was marketed as being the spiritual heir to the System Shocks, where puzzles and emergent gameplay were important.
I can't speak for SS1 but System Shock 2 haze no puzzles. An really it's not a non linear as at seems. Most levels are glorified circuits, "do one lap to complete level". The feature for revisiting old levels is nice but the only reason to use it is toget chemics for research. And the only reason for the chemical research side-quests is to make you appreciate the level revisiting feature.
It maybe got a little emergent gameplay. But most problems in SS2 can just be solved with a wrench.
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Johnmourby: Don't worry no spoilers.
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GabiMoro: Thanks, I already readt it, except for part 6. Story and Characters.
I kinda agree with you but somehow, after all the 9 out of 10 ratings I expected more. Perhaps the end will change that.
I dig ya. I think gamers old and new should be careful when hyping a game's story.
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Johnmourby: I'm so sick of people saying Bioshock Infinite is shit
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Randalator: Who does? All I ever see is people saying that it's THE shit.
Check any Youtube video on Bioshock news, Anything relating to it be Totalbiscuit, anything relating to it on blistered thumbs, any nostalgic post about System Shock 2........... for starters.
Post edited March 26, 2014 by Johnmourby
Posted March 26, 2014
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Crosmando: I remember playing Bioshock some years ago, I thought say the first hour or more of the game was great, really varied and showed off the different facets of the game, the stealth, puzzles, the way the story was telegraphed via finding notes/logs. It just seemed that after that intro part, the game just devolved into a series repetitive shooting sequences in hallways.

Bioshock to me is like Lionheart, interesting idea and varied gameplay at the beginning (like Barcelona), then the rest of the game devolves into mindless combat.
And I hope I've given reasons as to why that is no the only way to view it? You did read my post right?
Posted March 26, 2014
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F1ach: I believe the new dlc is pretty awesome and ties up any loose strands, I got it with a season pass but haven't downloaded it yet.
I didn't even realize it's out already, thanks for the heads-up!
Posted March 26, 2014
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Johnmourby: And I hope I've given reasons as to why that is no the only way to view it? You did read my post right?
I never played Infinite, I'm referring to the original.

Though I would say, Bioshock is a weird series in that it has a very serious, even philosophical story-driven approach, one might even say it has the pretense of being intellectual, yet at the end of the day the GAMEPLAY is just go around with guns killing things and stealing their stuff. It's just like if DOOM was made but instead of having some cheesy throwaway plot about demons, it had some long story with pretensions of being deep, complex, thought-provoking. The story might be great, but what does it matter if the gameplay is just about blasting demons into chunks of meat with a Super shotgun?

Bioshock would of been much better as say a Myst-clone/first-person adventure without combat. The FPS combat of the series has always been tacked on to give the series a broader reach to the dudebro console shooter audience, even though many (most?) people would agree that the FPS combat fucks up the story and is nothing but filler.
Post edited March 26, 2014 by Crosmando
Posted March 26, 2014
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Crosmando: Mindless? Perhaps. Linear? Maybe if you mean that "doing one level and then progressing to the next level" is linear, but in my view any good FPS has reasonably open map design, ie stuff like this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061119200337/doom/images/d/dd/E1M6dots.png
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070128082129/doom/images/2/2e/E1M7dots.png
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lukaszthegreat: I believe there is a bit of nostalgia filter going on with those "open maps"

you tend to run around from one side of the map to another... pick the key here so you can open the door there, go back so you can pick another key which was hidden behind the door and backtrack to open another door. it was linear to the max. do a, then do b, then do c. that's linear design of the map even if the map allows you to go back to a or b at any point. it just reuses the same rooms over and over again as you run from one objective to another.

this kind of map design is not as open as one believes...
There is a reason why we moved away from them... and not because they are harder or more costly to produce. Because they suck nowadays. we have much better ways to present the game.
Instead of reusing the same rooms over and over again we create new rooms. like cod or half life does. giving players new challenges, new areas to see and fight in instead of doing the same battle in the same room like in doom.
or we make the map open world ala far cry. many objectives, various ways to tackle them, skippable content, hidden secrets.

just for information....
cod ghosts hardly a good singleplayer game can be beaten in 6 hours
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=14322

doom 2 can be beaten in 8
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2711

so doom 2 does not provide a lot of extra playthrough. while cod gives you constantly new areas to explore and conquer in doom you are repeating your fights. crossing the same rooms over and over again in order to find those darn keys.

doom map design was good 20 years ago. it is not good by today's standard.
Nostalgia is key here. I do agree that shooter shouldn't just be Final Fantasy 13 style corridors the "arena style" maps of games like Doom and Duke 3D are patronising in their own way. Plus old-school devs loved doing dickish things like hiding that last key you don't care about up a flaming chimney.
Though I prefer narrative driven shooters part of me feels that Painkiller is the only game that got FPS design right. No swich puzzles, no ****ing keys. Just you and a room full of monsters. You may advance when you've killed them all, what a novelty.
Someone finally made an FPS when shooting is needed to win and we all turned our noises up at it and said "Combat? That's boring. we want more key puzzles please!"
Posted March 26, 2014
I loved BioShock Infinite and am looking forward to playing the Burial at Sea DLC's. But each to their own, man -- no reason to get all worked about about some people not liking the game.

For me, the original BioShock never impressed me all that much, and as a result I never even tried BS2. I got BS:I when it was on sale and it blew me away. Together with last year's Tomb Raider It's easily one of the most impressive and enjoyable modern games I've played.
Posted March 26, 2014
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Johnmourby: And I hope I've given reasons as to why that is no the only way to view it? You did read my post right?
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Crosmando: I never played Infinite, I'm referring to the original.

Though I would say, Bioshock is a weird series in that it has a very serious, even philosophical story-driven approach, one might even say it has the pretense of being intellectual, yet at the end of the day the GAMEPLAY is just go around with guns killing things and stealing their stuff. It's just like if DOOM was made but instead of having some cheesy throwaway plot about demons, it had some long story with pretensions of being deep, complex, thought-provoking. The story might be great, but what does it matter if the gameplay is just about blasting demons into chunks of meat with a Super shotgun?

Bioshock would of been much better as say a Myst-clone/first-person adventure without combat. The FPS combat of the series has always been tacked on to give the series a broader reach to the dudebro console shooter audience, even though many (most?) people would agree that the FPS combat fucks up the story and is nothing but filler.
Well once again I must respectfully disagree. I like the combat in infinite and I liked it in the original Bioshock even more. Storywise I feel Violence in Bioshock is needed. You're an unlucky sod who's not only forced to see the awful things in Rapture but to be a part of them just to stay alive. You can reject or sympathise with Andrew Ryan's philosophe. But When he says "I built a city at the bottom of the ocean, but all you can do is loot break" it put things into perspective. It's easy for him to say on his throne. but your "parasitic" way are what's keeping you alive. The game let's you know that you're a pawn, doing what ever your told to stay alive Maybe you deserve to be controlled by these "great men" who can accomplish so much more than you. Then you find the body of a suicide victim and remember that this is also the work of these "great men" and the illusion shatters.

I guess what I'm saying is the gunplay make you part of rapture rather than just an observer. But if that mean nothing to you I'll say this instead. I like a good story and I like action. The two things don't feel mutually exclusive. The Wages of Fear manages to be a great depiction of poverty, greed and desperation whilst also being a classic action movie. I don't see why a game shouldn't try to do the same.
Posted March 26, 2014
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Lorfean: I loved BioShock Infinite and am looking forward to playing the Burial at Sea DLC's. But each to their own, man -- no reason to get all worked about about some people not liking the game.

For me, the original BioShock never impressed me all that much, and as a result I never even tried BS2. I got BS:I when it was on sale and it blew me away. Together with last year's Tomb Raider It's easily one of the most impressive and enjoyable modern games I've played.
Good for you buddy :)

I know deep down there are better things to get worked up over than video games. But I like to challenge opinions that are considered fact. And I hoped I could show the fallacy in saying that my subjective feelings about the game are objectively wrong, that one can enjoy Infinite without being a moron. I don't mind people not liking the game. You like watcha like is what I always say. And hope other people can understand that.

Edit: I've got Tomb Raider in my backcatalog. I'm looking forward to it :D
Post edited March 26, 2014 by Johnmourby
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General discussion (archive)Why I like (and will defend) Bioshock Infinite(50 posts)(50 posts)
(50 posts)