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General discussion (archive)Why games do not have demos nowadays?(71 posts)(71 posts)
(71 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2013
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DaCostaBR: Well, demos aren't bad from a consumer stand point, just from the developer side.
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orcishgamer: Demos can be bad for consumers too, they steal resources away from game development and polish.

At worst they actively lie to you, if a game is good, admit it, we can find it out without a demo. It's only mediocre-ish games that have us on the fence usually.
Not true, I discovered most of my late 90´s games because of demos, like Duke Nukem 3d, Terminal Velocity, Take no Prisoners... And also, those were demos! Blood demo were the whole first chapter, for example.
Posted February 26, 2013
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Gersen: Another third person shooter with an average 76-77% review score, not sure that would be too hard to find...
It can have whatever scores you like so long as a comparable range of reviewers called it things like "The most important thing to happen in video gaming in a decade/ever".

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Gersen: I usually don't, and what is your point ? I never sold any of the games I bough and yet I am still against limiting/preventing second hand sales.
Did I ever say I was "for" limiting second hand sales? Anyone who reads this forum regularly knows I am against any such limitations. I was only quoting that part about review embargoes. I would think my response would have made that clear even if my quoting job was sloppy.

Regardless, your argument is basically "they want to do something to make more money, so they should make less money". How about we just say, "No, you don't have the right to limit second hand sales", because it's both the truth and I doubt anyone is qualified to make a "trade" on behalf of gamers and the industry?

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Gersen: Releasing patch also cost them money and doesn't increase sales
Yeah I'm shocked how paying customers always get all the consideration!

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Gersen: Concerning the demo it's a situation they created themselves, they increase the needs for demo by blocking/limiting the other way of getting information about the game before release and/or getting rid in case it doesn't turn up good.
Oh bullshit (and this is going in circles)! You don't pre-order, so you can read reviews fine. You can ask your friends fine. You can read user reviews fine. You can watch Let's Plays and other Youtube videos fine.

Let's just call this demo whining what it is, entitlement. Dress it up however you want, you feel entitled to demos. If demos made more money or made sense for the industry they'd already be doing it. If consumers refused to buy because they didn't offer a demo, they'd be doing it. Guess what, none of that is true, and a sense of entitlement is going to do fuck all to change it.

So, if you want demos, figure out something that actually benefits the publishers. Because "I want" is pretty unlikely to get you what you want.

And how do you know what a demo costs? Do you know how many man hours goes into one? Do you know what certification and support for a demo costs? Then how could you possibly know?

But let's just put some icing on this cake, shall we? Name the last 5 games that you were not going to buy, but purchased at or near full price AFTER playing the demo and only because of the demo. I have a feeling this will be awesome.
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orcishgamer: Demos can be bad for consumers too, they steal resources away from game development and polish.

At worst they actively lie to you, if a game is good, admit it, we can find it out without a demo. It's only mediocre-ish games that have us on the fence usually.
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tejozaszaszas: Not true, I discovered most of my late 90´s games because of demos, like Duke Nukem 3d, Terminal Velocity, Take no Prisoners... And also, those were demos! Blood demo were the whole first chapter, for example.
Games you bought in the 90s or recently? Because they're not really in the business of propping up long tail sales at the expense of new release sales. And if it was in the 90s, did you stop buying new games since then? How do you decide now? Are demos really that necessary if you're still able to make purchasing decisions?
Post edited February 26, 2013 by orcishgamer
Posted February 27, 2013
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orcishgamer: Regardless, your argument is basically "they want to do something to make more money, so they should make less money". How about we just say, "No, you don't have the right to limit second hand sales", because it's both the truth and I doubt anyone is qualified to make a "trade" on behalf of gamers and the industry?
No my argument is that even thought it might not always directly increase their sales it doesn't mean they should stop doing it (It's nothing uncommon for companies to do things that doesn't necessarily directly increase their profit but might benefit them in other ways, PR stuff, etc...). Especially as nowadays there have create several "advantages" for themselves that they didn't had years ago.

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orcishgamer: Because "I want" is pretty unlikely to get you what you want
Never said "I want", I said "they should" continue to release demos.

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orcishgamer: But let's just put some icing on this cake, shall we? Name the last 5 games that you were not going to buy, but purchased at or near full price AFTER playing the demo and only because of the demo. I have a feeling this will be awesome.
That was the point of my "second sales" paragraph you misread earlier, I personally don't use demo, not anymore. I stopped needing them when I nearly totally stopped purchasing new games years ago because of the DRMs, my current "demo" are the PS3 versions of the games that I borrow from my peoples I know.

But even thought I personally don't use them anymore doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea to stop releasing them.
Posted February 27, 2013
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orcishgamer: But let's just put some icing on this cake, shall we? Name the last 5 games that you were not going to buy, but purchased at or near full price AFTER playing the demo and only because of the demo. I have a feeling this will be awesome.
Well, I already did exactly what you ask for here in my first post, but since the question was not directed at me, I'll stop being such an attention whore. :D

(Besides, all of those were indie games, I hardly ever buy AAA titles at release and for full price.)
Posted February 27, 2013
Unless you live in a very internet regulated country with strong anti-piracy laws why not download the games and try them? If you don't like them throw them away and if you like it buy it. It's a pity Gaikai didn't pull off. Time limited access via streaming to get a sense of how a game works and feels before you buy it.
Posted February 28, 2013
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Nirth: Unless you live in a very internet regulated country with strong anti-piracy laws why not download the games and try them? If you don't like them throw them away and if you like it buy it. ...
Problem is that most people will try until completed and skip the buying step. Also it would almost everywhere being illegal, even in Sweden I guess.

A lighter version might be to have a lot of video game addicted friends and then all of them buy one game and everybody tries it and if they are satisfied they each buy it.
Posted March 01, 2013
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Nirth: Unless you live in a very internet regulated country with strong anti-piracy laws why not download the games and try them? If you don't like them throw them away and if you like it buy it. ...
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Trilarion: Problem is that most people will try until completed and skip the buying step. Also it would almost everywhere being illegal, even in Sweden I guess.

A lighter version might be to have a lot of video game addicted friends and then all of them buy one game and everybody tries it and if they are satisfied they each buy it.
This is about how everyone with a console still does it.
Posted March 21, 2013
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DaCostaBR: Maybe you could blame it on being jaded, but that changed lately. Some years ago when I finally got my PS3 connected to the PSN I played every single demo in there, and the only one I ended up buying was Bioshock, everything else I either didn't like or would have bought anyway. Now I usually have my mind made up long prior to a demo and don't even bother playing them anymore.
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Leroux: Like I said, it also depends on your personal context. Generally, I believe you can expect a game sold for your console to work on your console. That's not the case with PC games, especially not if your PC is not best equipped to run more demanding titles. I mostly buy low to mid price indie games on the PC and seeing that the entry level for selling indie games is assumably much lower than the entry level for AAA and console titles, meaning there's a lot more shovelware, but also seeing that I'm still very curious about them and eager to find hidden gems, it makes sense for me to try them before buying. I buy a lot of games but I usually don't spend much on individual titles, so without the means to try out the more expensive ones, I'd probably have to settle for only buying very cheap and discounted games or bundles.

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DaCostaBR: P.S.: Wow! You've played Fortune Summoners? I haven't gotten around to it yet, but have you tried Recettear? It's from the same publisher and it's demo made me immediately buy it.
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Leroux: I had very low framerates in the Recettear demo, so this was actually a case where the demo convinced me not to buy it (at least not yet). ;)

But I suspect I wouldn't love it as much as Fortune Summoners. It's the same publisher, alright, but not the same developer and the gameplay is quite different. So far Fortune Summoners was the only game published by Carpe Fulgur that immediately appealed to me (I guess I have a thing for funny 2D sidescrollers).
Heeyy... I know it's been a long time and all... but I'm a very annoying person...and I just wanted to point out that Recettear is 66% off today...
Posted March 21, 2013
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DaCostaBR: Heeyy... I know it's been a long time and all... but I'm a very annoying person...and I just wanted to point out that Recettear is 66% off today...
If I would decide to get the game, I'd rather have the DRM-free version than a Steam key, especially considering that I might have to wait for a better rig before I can run it smoothly, but thanks for the heads up all the same! :)
Posted June 08, 2013
Interesting mini essay on this subject:

http://indiegames.com/2013/06/the_demo_is_dead_revisited_by_.html

edit - fixed link
Post edited June 08, 2013 by mondo84
Posted June 08, 2013
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Gersen: ~snip~
You can argue over all you want, but what was said in Extra Credits episode is mostly right. Obviously in a perfect world video games publishers would feel responsible for gamer's experience, but in the world of our everyday down-to-earth economy the point of releasing the demo is not to make consumers sure they now what they spend their money on, but simply to sell a product. Having that in mind most studios won't put their time and money into crafting and cutting out a piece of content that won't help to sell their game anyway.

Edit: Just checked the date of most posts here, looks like there's a lot of stale threads appearing on the front page of this forum. :/
Post edited June 08, 2013 by uxtull
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General discussion (archive)Why games do not have demos nowadays?(71 posts)(71 posts)
(71 posts)