I'm overall fine with the GTA-like save system... except that I wish I could save the game right after the mission, without having to find my way all the way back to the "home base". So I can't just continue from one successful mission to another, but always visit my home in between.

But ok ok, in flight sims etc. you also have to fly back to your home base, land successfully etc... But I feel those are part of a successful mission.

You missed one hell of a final mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lj23EUR9U

Me too. I only tried GTA 4 so far, but found it pointless, linear, outright disgusting in its way how it forces and teaches you to do atrocious things, and pretty much horrible overall. It's game for young boys who think it would be cool to be a "Gangsta" without having to feel any repercussions. Yuck.

The only recent GTA I've played is GTA 4, and I only lasted about 4 hours into it. I thought my friend was kidding when he said *SPOILER* you take your girl bowling *ENDSPOILER. He wasn't.

I'm not all into guts and violence, but the game just... seemed to lack soul.

Absolutely. What I meant was someone saying (s)he played one GTA game for 15 minutes, another for 20 and so on.

I can do a lot worse if I'm looking to insult people.

About your story: Honestly, that's why you made the decision on uninstalling San Andreas? That, to me, is hilarious. I'd say games like GTA are definitely not for you, so you made the right decision.

I like the open world.

I like the satirical story and cutscenes. Dry satire is my kind of humor.

I like the music.

I like the style.

I like the shooting in San Andreas up.

This is why there are age restrictions. In my opinion those should be supervised. If you're a parent buying GTA to a 12 year old, you should be ashamed of yourself. It is adult entertainment made for adults, like Marcus Beer says.

I used to have the same problem when I was younger with playing an evil character in RPGs. It just felt wrong. Now I've grown up a little and realised that they're just games and should be observed as such. Making "evil" decisions in a game does not mean that you'd make the same decisions in real life.

The problem is, for adult people the game has nothing to offer. It's designed for youths dreaming of being an all-powerful gangster who never has to pay for his deeds.

I have no problem with roleplaying "evil" characters. I _do_ have a problem with GTA's way of presenting one, and I honestly think that any mature, grown-up person _should_ have a problem with that. The "It's just a game" argument is a fallacy. Tell me:

What exactly do you enjoy about smashing a restaurant window with a brick, so that you can extort money from the owner? It can't be any feeling of freedom because the mission doesn't give you any. The mission gives you exact step-by-step instructions, and you have to follow them to the T. You can't even throw the brick at the glass door because it'll just bounce back.

What exactly do you enjoy in executing a defenseless man who has already given up? Don't answer with "It's just a game". I know that. My question is: Why do you enjoy a game that forces you to do this? (Again, you have no choice in the situation I'm referring to.)

What exactly do you enjoy in shooting a man in the knee, incapacitating him for weeks, just because your leader (and the game) tell you to? Again, you don't have the slightest bit of choice in this situation.

This. For GTA: VC, you could say I'm a lover. All others like 3, GTA: SA and 4, I'm pretty much neutral. Completed 3, didn't complete SA and 4.

Doing things outside of your comfortzone can be precise what makes these games appealing to a lot of people.

I find the world exploration experience to be better in Yakuza games. The worlds are much smaller, but there are a lot of hand crafted situations to add some mood to people and areas. Not to mention the fun sub missions that you just bump into, instead of following a huge glowing waypoint. But you can't really do those things on GTA map scale.

Then why does the game make these things so _comfortable_ and convenient?

I absolutely agree that confrontation with disturbing things is a powerful and useful tool in storytelling. One of the greatest powers of art is its ability to broaden the recipient's horizon, to challenge the recipient into thinking about concepts outside of his "comfort zone", as you label it.

However, GTA does not do this. It doesn't challenge you in any way, it just glorifies a very simple and childish concept of an all-powerful gangster. The game clearly wants to provide its players with the ability to play as such a silly character without having to think about it. If it wanted to disturb, to challenge, then it would just have to switch to the perspective of the victim once in a while. But it never does that, because that _would_ disturb the omnipotence fantasies of its main target group.

Again, this game:
- forces you to do atrocious things
- never shows you the perspective of the victim
- teaches you that all these things can be done without repercussions
- doesn't give you a choice and doesn't offer alternative solutions even if they would be obvious

This is not a game that challenges players to leave their comfort zone and think about it. It's a game that provides players an opportunity to feel omnipotent, invulnerable, and untouchable even when committing atrocities.

I find it too repetitive. The side missions that is. As a completionist I cannot ignore them. This is one of the reasons why I also hated Assassins Creed

I'm personally not a fan as well. The driving fields very odd to me. And then there's the whole dirtiness of it all that I just don't like. I saw Conan O'Brian's play of the game and half of his play was at a stripclub. I could not imagine playing a game like that. It's just very creepy to me.

I also don't see much value in playing tennis and golf in a game that's not about tennis or golf -- unless they did a really good job with it. I can see them as fun little distractions, but when I hear people excited that they can play virtual golf, I scratch my head.

I remember a neighbor when he had GTA 1 way back in the day. I was just a kid then and I thought it was quite awesome. The was the peak of my opinion of the GTA series.
+1
When I want to play a mature game, I want to play a mature game. Not an immature game with an M on its package.

Haha. I said package.