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Balance in console games? Do I have to drag out the youtube link of the guy finishing Crysis 2 on the second hardest level without firing a shot?
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GameRager: Not for me...of course I play with one hand on each control and can reach them pretty easily.
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kalirion: What's your config? I use left hand on keyboard (ESDF), right hand on mouse. To switch weapons I have to move my hand away from the movement keys, and then find my way back quickly. Not good in the middle of a firefight.
I use left hand on arrows(I know i'm weird but it works), with reload set to backspace.....jump to right ctrl, crouch to delete or right shift, and the weapons on number keys but with quick weapon switch set to mouse wheel up/down or bracket keys......oh yeah, and use as enter & \ as item use.
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CymTyr: Short answer:

It costs less to program a smaller inventory. They think in dollars, so you do the math.
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orcishgamer: It requires different balancing for the levels, I fail to see how it's cheaper to have to program with the idea in mind that you might not be able to guarantee the player has the ideal weapon on them for a particular section.

It's bits, not something physical, a bigger inventory doesn't cost more.
What you say makes sense, but bits while not physical, cost money to organize into specific patterns.

I may be wrong but I still think it's related to money.
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Metro09: Balance in console games? Do I have to drag out the youtube link of the guy finishing Crysis 2 on the second hardest level without firing a shot?
This isn't a console to pc title though. The other way around actually. And yes, this game has a weird/lazy qeapon system but if we changed it without rebalancing for PC/etc it would ruin the gameplay.
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orcishgamer: It requires different balancing for the levels, I fail to see how it's cheaper to have to program with the idea in mind that you might not be able to guarantee the player has the ideal weapon on them for a particular section.

It's bits, not something physical, a bigger inventory doesn't cost more.
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CymTyr: What you say makes sense, but bits while not physical, cost money to organize into specific patterns.

I may be wrong but I still think it's related to money.
Don't forget the other big problem...TIME. As I said before, if Randy/etc don't push this out soon people are gonna pack up and go home...or riot.....either way they need to recoup their investment and sell enough to guarantee a sequel.....and rebalancing to fit in all weapons/etc would require more time then they have(that the fans are giving them, anyways, before forgetting about their purchases.)
Post edited June 01, 2011 by GameRager
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Metro09: Balance in console games? Do I have to drag out the youtube link of the guy finishing Crysis 2 on the second hardest level without firing a shot?
Yes, because I've never seen it before and I'm curious.
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lukipela: One of the reasons Halo CE sold so well was that the interface was damned near perfect.
Very true on that too. I lost my copy of it, and I've been wanting to go back and play the whole series from the beginning. As goofy a world as it is, I still have fun with it. I even liked ODST, for all that it should have been a cheaper expansion.
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Metro09: Balance in console games? Do I have to drag out the youtube link of the guy finishing Crysis 2 on the second hardest level without firing a shot?
You mean the part where he didn't show the hardest fight in the game and he only could do it by using maxed regen (which is balanced by that point in the game, very near the end). I didn't play it, but these facts seem confirmed. The Black Ops no shooting on a level save for scripted sequences seems a better example for your case, especially since Crysis was, you know, a PC exclusive. Crysis 2 wasn't exactly a console only affair.

But you know, if all console games are super easy you and I can play Lords of Shadow side by side on Paladin difficulty, you let me know how you feel about it after the normal enemies rip you in half.
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lukipela: One of the reasons Halo CE sold so well was that the interface was damned near perfect.
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nondeplumage: Very true on that too. I lost my copy of it, and I've been wanting to go back and play the whole series from the beginning. As goofy a world as it is, I still have fun with it. I even liked ODST, for all that it should have been a cheaper expansion.
Halo Waypoint is an interesting experiment, this is a free version of what Activision wants to charge gamers for in MW3. Waypoint actually encourages people to play the Halo games that maybe they'd passed on due to playstyle or whatever.
Post edited June 01, 2011 by orcishgamer
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kalirion: Didn't Bioshock let you pause the game while you go into weapon selection menu? I don't think a twitch-based "all action all the time" shooter can get away with that.

I'm actually playing Duke 3D right now, and even with the M+K controls it's a pain selecting weapons mapped to 7-0 keys.
First of all, consider playing with eDuke32 if you aren't already. Secondly, remap your keys!

Try making your weapon switch keys 1, 2, 3, 4, F, V, C, X, Z, G, use Q and E to go between inventory items (and middle mouse to use them), and use R for the boot. You'll be able to keep your hand in the WSAD area for everything but quick inventory buttons. Try to put a quick button for the jetpack nearby (like ALT or B), and possibly the health pack as well.

This should make your gaming experience a lot more fun. I never had too much trouble balancing the 10+ weapon systems in first-person shooters on consoles (...this was back when having a gaming quality computer of your own, as a kid, was out of the question. I can still play Doom very well on an Xbox, but I'd rather play on PC), but apparently today's generation does.

Damn kids, I miss my questionably scattered and often overpowered power-ups, arsenals, 2D sprites, colored keys, genius non-linear level designs (and sometimes hub worlds, like Hexen! <3), and awesome music. ;_;
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lukipela: Have you played Reach yet? Out of all of them, it is the best.
Sure did. The only thing I didn't like were the characters (because one dimensional badass works fine for Master Chief, but trying to create a whole team we're supposed to care about, I need more than "sassy woman with robotic arm" and "big guy with big gun, secretly cudly teddy bear", etc.). But man, what a fun game. The space battle especially; that reminded me very much of Crimson Skies.
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LordKuruku: I never had too much trouble balancing the 10+ weapon systems in first-person shooters on consoles (...this was back when having a gaming quality computer of your own, as a kid, was out of the question. I can still play Doom very well on an Xbox, but I'd rather play on PC), but apparently today's generation does.
Um, you can balance the 10+ weapon systems in games that use them BECAUSE they're BALANCED to play that way...if you added 10+ weapons at once ability to a game balanced for 2-3 weapons held at once it'd be a different story.
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kalirion: What's your config? I use left hand on keyboard (ESDF), right hand on mouse. To switch weapons I have to move my hand away from the movement keys, and then find my way back quickly. Not good in the middle of a firefight.
Am I the only weirdo who uses the scroll wheel on the mouse to change weapons?
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StingingVelvet: Am I the only weirdo who uses the scroll wheel on the mouse to change weapons?
You can do that?!
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StingingVelvet: Am I the only weirdo who uses the scroll wheel on the mouse to change weapons?
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nondeplumage: You can do that?!
Yeah sure... it's the norm in PC FPS games as far as I know.
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kalirion: What's your config? I use left hand on keyboard (ESDF), right hand on mouse. To switch weapons I have to move my hand away from the movement keys, and then find my way back quickly. Not good in the middle of a firefight.
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StingingVelvet: Am I the only weirdo who uses the scroll wheel on the mouse to change weapons?
Not unless i'm a weirdo as well.
it's bandwagoning:

all the "cool" kids are doing the whole "two weapons" thing, and you want to be cool don't you?

DONT YOU! 0.o


... that balancing gameplay excuse is bullshit, if you don't want people going ape shit with the BFG then only let players carry 5 shots and make ammo for it hyper rare.

besides your asking for logic from Gear Box, the only logic they use is "titties = sales."

*edit* I'm a scroll wheel weirdo too! and what ever happened to using the shoulder buttons on a game pad to cycle weapons?
Post edited June 02, 2011 by Sogi-Ya