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General discussion (archive)Why do disk drives have so much power?(43 posts)(43 posts)
(43 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 16, 2013
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_Bruce_: You are assuming you can run more than one thread at once. Doesn't matter how many threads you have you can only execute one per CPU core (note I was talking about old/simple systems).
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Trilarion: Even on one CPU core you can slice the time and do multithreading. I think it's more the asynchronous IO design that older systems hadn't. Nothing should be blocking per se. Every thread should decide by itself if it wants to wait and how long.
Er... sure, but still you are only executing one at a time. However long you need to deal with the interrupt other threads are not running. Which is... what I said in the first place?
Posted September 16, 2013
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mystikmind2000: It has always been a peculiarity to me over the years how disks that are scratched or otherwise a bit 'IFFY' can absolutely disable your computer with such overwhelming ease and depending on the circumstances, you sometimes can do nothing except press the reset button.

Doesn't matter whichever OS i have had or system, the disk drive still has absolute power to disable the computer.

The reason i am asking this question today, is because last night my TV CD player did not like a movie disk i put in and totally froze. I pressed eject but it would not, so i switched it off and the off message appeared on the display but it did not turn off! And no the disk was not a pirated copy, but it was a bit old.

So my question is this... Why the hell can a computer/player be so fixated on an iffy disk that it won't accept any further commands from the user?????

I mean, why do we need viruses? If you want to crash computers, all you have to do is sneak into a store and scratch a few disks!!!

At the start of any war, whoever has a spy near a vital computer, will win,,,, doesn't matter how powerful all your firewalls are, all they have to do is shove a crappy disk in the drive and down she goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it is ridiculous.
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Darvond: -1 For poor grammar and spelling.
-1 Punctuation abuse
-1 Failure to grasp basic computing.

Oh, wait, I can only -1 once. In that case, I choose the third reasons because it vexes me the most.

I honestly can't recall the last time I put a CD-ROM into my computer.
+1,000,000 to Enigmatic for posting an awesome answer and being Enigmatic the cool one.
Post edited September 16, 2013 by ZapMcRaygunn
Posted September 16, 2013
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Darvond: -1 For poor grammar and spelling.
-1 Punctuation abuse
-1 Failure to grasp basic computing.

Oh, wait, I can only -1 once. In that case, I choose the third reasons because it vexes me the most.

I honestly can't recall the last time I put a CD-ROM into my computer.
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ZapMcRaygunn: -3 for attacking someone else's grammar before checking your own grammar. Shouldn't the third reason be treated as a singular here?
I greatly regret my post at this point, leave me to my shame.
Posted September 16, 2013
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ZapMcRaygunn: -3 for attacking someone else's grammar before checking your own grammar. Shouldn't the third reason be treated as a singular here?
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Darvond: I greatly regret my post at this point, leave me to my shame.
I regret you read that while I was in the midst of changing it. I feel bad for posting it. :(
Look again...
I chose to leave you alone and give Enigmatic credit for his answer. Enjoy, and remember-we all make mistakes.
:)
Post edited September 16, 2013 by ZapMcRaygunn
Posted September 16, 2013
But when you think about it, in this day and age there is absolutely no reason why an optical drive should be able to hang the entire OS. The reason is ultimately lack of development in this area. Don't forget that most desktop PCs still use technology that dates back to the late 70s. But with optical media (and desktop systems on the whole) losing ever increasing degrees of development, it's not a problem that is going to be solved, no matter how solvable it may be.
Posted September 16, 2013
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Navagon: But when you think about it, in this day and age there is absolutely no reason why an optical drive should be able to hang the entire OS. The reason is ultimately lack of development in this area. Don't forget that most desktop PCs still use technology that dates back to the late 70s. But with optical media (and desktop systems on the whole) losing ever increasing degrees of development, it's not a problem that is going to be solved, no matter how solvable it may be.
...but it is solved. The only real remaining issue is how terrible WIndows Explorer is. Note that this does not only apply to optical drives, you can easily bring down Windows Explorer with a network share that is not responding promptly.

Also Unix dates back to the late 60s and doesn't have a problem. The issue is just bad software, nothing to do with the age of the technology.
Posted September 16, 2013
Thanks for the interesting replies people.

Another interesting thing about CD/DVD (CD means CD/DVD) drives that i encountered is how i have to keep an old CD player hooked up to my computer after three separate upgrades over the last 6 years?

All these new CD players simply refuse to read some of my old game disks, (these are the ones locking my computer) meanwhile that old CD player can!??

What is different about newer CD drives that they won't work where an old CD player will? Note that i never buy cheap CD players because of all the trouble i have had.... i always try to buy the best available at the time.
Posted September 16, 2013
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mystikmind2000: Thanks for the interesting replies people.

Another interesting thing about CD/DVD (CD means CD/DVD) drives that i encountered is how i have to keep an old CD player hooked up to my computer after three separate upgrades over the last 6 years?

All these new CD players simply refuse to read some of my old game disks, (these are the ones locking my computer) meanwhile that old CD player can!??

What is different about newer CD drives that they won't work where an old CD player will? Note that i never buy cheap CD players because of all the trouble i have had.... i always try to buy the best available at the time.
The only issue like this I am aware of was back in the 90s (and definately not the last 6 years). Early CD games ran off the CD and needed to stream data for the game to work. If the data came off too quickly (8x CD Drive!!!) the requests for data would stop and the drive will spin down. Then when you need more data the drive has to spin up again and the game pauses until the disk can spin up. Lucas Arts adventure games had this problem very badly (particularly full throttle IIRC). By the end of the 90s CD speeds had reached the maximum possible before the disc explodes. Since then nothing has changed.

This of course doesn't address your observation, which I can see no reason for. My best guess is that your old drive has much better error tolerance and despite never buying a 'cheap' drive the newer drives you have used are less error tolerant.

Maybe you need to take better care of your discs and/or image them?
Posted September 16, 2013
Plus one to OP, just because.
Posted September 16, 2013
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mystikmind2000: Thanks for the interesting replies people.

Another interesting thing about CD/DVD (CD means CD/DVD) drives that i encountered is how i have to keep an old CD player hooked up to my computer after three separate upgrades over the last 6 years?

All these new CD players simply refuse to read some of my old game disks, (these are the ones locking my computer) meanwhile that old CD player can!??

What is different about newer CD drives that they won't work where an old CD player will? Note that i never buy cheap CD players because of all the trouble i have had.... i always try to buy the best available at the time.
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_Bruce_: The only issue like this I am aware of was back in the 90s (and definately not the last 6 years). Early CD games ran off the CD and needed to stream data for the game to work. If the data came off too quickly (8x CD Drive!!!) the requests for data would stop and the drive will spin down. Then when you need more data the drive has to spin up again and the game pauses until the disk can spin up. Lucas Arts adventure games had this problem very badly (particularly full throttle IIRC). By the end of the 90s CD speeds had reached the maximum possible before the disc explodes. Since then nothing has changed.

This of course doesn't address your observation, which I can see no reason for. My best guess is that your old drive has much better error tolerance and despite never buying a 'cheap' drive the newer drives you have used are less error tolerant.

Maybe you need to take better care of your discs and/or image them?
Error tolerance? So what's one of the best CD drives out these days that has superior error tolerance?

Oh and yes, i do not look after my disks, i hate disks, hence i love GOG where i have bought many of my old games even though i still have the original disk, because it is well worth the five bucks to have a digital copy and never have to frig around with the disk again! It is only that GOG is a bit slow getting all the good old games that i have that i need the good CD player.
Posted September 16, 2013
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mystikmind2000: Error tolerance? So what's one of the best CD drives out these days that has superior error tolerance?

Oh and yes, i do not look after my disks, i hate disks, hence i love GOG where i have bought many of my old games even though i still have the original disk, because it is well worth the five bucks to have a digital copy and never have to frig around with the disk again! It is only that GOG is a bit slow getting all the good old games that i have that i need the good CD player.
Who knows? Few people care any more, either it plays CD Audio or it doesn't... I still think dealing with your damaged discs is a better option than spending money on drives. Why don't you just image them before they die completely?

For the record it's disc, not disk when talking about CDs and DVDs.
Posted September 16, 2013
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mystikmind2000: Error tolerance? So what's one of the best CD drives out these days that has superior error tolerance?

Oh and yes, i do not look after my disks, i hate disks, hence i love GOG where i have bought many of my old games even though i still have the original disk, because it is well worth the five bucks to have a digital copy and never have to frig around with the disk again! It is only that GOG is a bit slow getting all the good old games that i have that i need the good CD player.
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_Bruce_: Who knows? Few people care any more, either it plays CD Audio or it doesn't... I still think dealing with your damaged discs is a better option than spending money on drives. Why don't you just image them before they die completely?

For the record it's disc, not disk when talking about CDs and DVDs.
So far as imaging is concerned, theoretically a good idea, hence all my wasted efforts in past years, it just never worked. Of all the hundreds of copies i have tried making in various different ways over the years, none have ever worked. Allot of these old game disks are somehow designed to resist duplication i think?

Technically i don't care about the technical spelling of CD's their round objects, as such they are disks!
Posted September 17, 2013
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_Bruce_: ... Er... sure, but still you are only executing one at a time. However long you need to deal with the interrupt other threads are not running. Which is... what I said in the first place?
Ah, then I just misunderstood you. I thought you meant the system gets unresponsive and there is a visible lag. But if it's done right, it would seem to the user as if all these things run simultaenously even if in truth only one thing is executed at a time.
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General discussion (archive)Why do disk drives have so much power?(43 posts)(43 posts)
(43 posts)