The single player campaign for NWN was pretty much a tacked on afterthought after the game was made to show off what the engine could do .

Which, as someone coming straight from IWD2 and all the other IE games, plus the long development time, plus all the hype, was a CRUSHING disappointment to me. I had known about Neverwinter Nights (what a fantastic name for a game !) long before it actually came out and was eagerly looking forward to it. I bought it and played it ...... and it was crap ...

I realise that it has a big following now but that is only because it has been so well modded and I've never played a NWN mod. I'm still angry with Bioware for releasing the original NWN and leaving it to the modding community to turn it into something far better. The single player campaign is, as I said, soulless, lifeless and boring.

As for the supposedly superior NWN engine, I don't even agree with that opinion. Third-person swirly-camera is not as good as "isometric" static camera in my opinion. And the D&D rules which NWN uses are inferior imo to the ruleset used in BG1+2, P:T and IWD, though it is identical (I think) with the ruleset used in IWD2, but IWD2 has better writing, SIX party members and is generally just a far better game than NWN.

I would have to say that NWN, unmodded (and this is the only way I ever experienced it) is one of the most disappointing games I have ever played in my long gaming career.

If you want to try an epic RPG with a great storyline and huge immersive interactive world you can't beat Ultima 7 and its expansion packs. The combat and character building are secondary so it is different to the other games mentioned here but if you enjoy depth and charm and having to keep your own notes (lots of them, get a whole notepad ready!) then it really cannot be beaten in my opinion.

Starting with more action oriented Icewind Dale might not be bad case. But ofcourse if you really value story and like riding alot, then just move straight to BG1. However, if you play IwD after going through BG's, it may feel bit like diablo.

Good LAN game btw :)

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edit: ups didnt check the year :D

NWN 1's campaign is bit bland, but i really liked the epic expansion, "Hordes of the Underdark" - sure its still pretty diablo, but damned if i didnt enjoy playing pure epic lvl mage.

..btw does anyone happen to know if its still possible to get the NWN premium modules that are not included in the diamond edition here on GOG?

The key seems to be Black isle Studios. BIS was involved in the making of all the IE games and also the Fallout games, and later original members of BIS were responsible for the writing in Fallout New Vegas - and it is immediately evident when you play one of their games because the characters are just so much more interesting, there is so much more LIFE in them.

I don't know what Bioware's current line-up is like but when they created Neverwinter Nights they clearly lacked this talent and my uninformed conclusion is that it must have been Black Isle Studios who, all those years, were the real creative force, not Bioware. Bioware created the Infinity Engine and good on them for that but it seems to me that they just didn't have a decent creative writer in their ranks when NWN was finally released. Either that or they were just looking to make money and released NWN as an unifinished RPG along with tools to improve it (or perhaps both, since they realised they had no writing talent in their ranks and still needed to make money after a long and protracted development ?)

I would recommend playing all of them in the order in which they were released.

Part of me wants to do this, mostly because I want to absorb the changes/upgrades to the IE in the appropriate order, but then that would mean holding off on BG2 until I do PS:T and IW.

Decisions, decisions.

Since I enjoyed DA:O as well, it seems I'll really enjoy BG too! But will start with Torment, first :)

As good as BG is, it is, in my opinion, the worst of the infinity engine games. BG2 is considerably better, and while IWD 1 & 2 are a bit less story focused, they are more tactical and are really fun due to this.
I did not like NWN though.


Make sure to not wait too long between BG 1 & 2, or you might end up misplacing your savegames (they can be transfered). Going from BG2 to PS:T should not be a huge issue, even if BG2's engine feels smoother
On the other hand, there are actually a few references to PS:T in BG2 which you might not get unless you have played PS:T

Any good single player mods than with stories, I heard there is that Ultima 4 remake mod.

Is there a remake mod of Ultima 4 as well? I know there is the Lazarus mod for Dungeon Siege which recreates Ultima 5.

Is your avatar Keith David?

This is what I would do after Baldur's Gate 1:

- Play Baldur's Gate 2 and enjoy the best CRPG by far;
- Play Planescape: Torment and enjoy the best story a CRPG can offer;
- Play Icewind Dale 1 to see what the real AD&D fights can become;
- Play Icewind Dale 2 for the same reason as IW1, just with a touch of D&D3;
- Play The Temple of Elemental Evil and enjoy the full D&D3;

Right now we have roughly 3-6 months of potential gameplay :)

- Play Arcanum, if you want. I can't like this game;
- Install Neverwinter Nights 1 and look for good mods - the original campaign sucks;
- Play Neverwinter Nights 2 Masker of the Betrayer.

There's two (seemingly buggy ones according to comments) made with NWN toolset. Ultima IV Reborn and Avatarship - Ultima 4 Remake RePolished

There was a Ultima IV remake by guy called George Stepan called Ultima IV: Virtue of Humility he coded using developed using Dark Basic. The authors site is long gone, but I'm still hosting the last build he made.

There's also parodic Ultima IV Part II: Dude, where is my Avatar? that tells what happened between U4 and U5.

There are actually two remakes made with Dungeon Siege: Ultima V: Lazarus and The Ultima 6 Project. Further remakes on Dungeon Siege engine are, unfortunately, unlikely unless completely new team makes it.

Oh and for shit and giggles, in case someone here owns Ti-89, Ti-89 Titanium, Ti-92+ or V200 calculator, there's a remake of Ultima V : Warrior of Destiny for those made by David Randall. You can find the remake (in two flavors) from my site. There's two gif animation files that show what games looks like in the two version for those who do not own the above mentioned calculators.