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General discussion (archive)What is Japan's problem with PC games?(79 posts)(79 posts)
(79 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 26, 2014
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Huinehtar: And there is something I would like to see in that kind of games, I don't know if Uncharted Waters includes for instance: I would like to see exploration in Terra Incognita (like in Europa Universalis), doing official missions (sabotage, creating outposts, attacking settlements, official exploration campaigns including botanists and naturalists in the crew, and so on)...

I don't know if there is a game including that, at the vessel level, not a grand strategy game for once.
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cw8: In Uncharted Waters, you explore the whole world, not just the Carribean or Europe. You can go up to the Arctic, China, Japan, India, Africa etc. There are ports all around the world and there are native villages which you can make discoveries and sell them like discovering durian in South East Asia or the Great Wall in China. For ports, you can make investments to make the port offer more unique ships and cannons. Like getting Junk ships off Asia and powerful Full-Rigged Ships off Antwerp. Sadly, you can't attack settlements. You do get the chance to get jobs to chart the unknown world and they pay you.
You have 6 different characters around Europe to play as, each with their own character and storylines which makes the game even more unique.
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k1bell: Whoever decided to pollute my RTK with real time battles deserves to be stabbed multiple times and disembowelled.
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cw8: I would bite them on the shoulder so bad like Luis Suarez and make sure the meat falls off.
Though I think the top concern now is we probably won't even see any more RTKs, they're more concerned about spamming the very banal Dynasty Warriors series.
Well, at least they didn't forget the PC with Nobunaga's Ambition:
http://operationrainfall.com/2013/05/15/nobunaga%27s-ambition-30th-anniv-game-set/
Posted June 26, 2014
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KingofGnG: Well, if you expect normal things from Japan you gonna have a very bad time....
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TwoHandedSword: I think the scariest thing about this is that I've actually already seen that video before.
Does it make me weird if I´m unable to find that weird? :P
Posted June 27, 2014
I believe VPN is your friend when living a country with weird region restrictions.
Posted June 27, 2014
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yoshino: In Japan, there are few PC games available here...and prices are weird.
Thanks GOG, I can play many PC games with cheap prices.
Yeah, no kidding. I can only wonder how you managed before GOG.

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OneFiercePuppy: I'd probably just chalk it all up to "Japan" honestly. (...)
Every other thing every day was a constant litany of "WTF, Japan?"
But, but! They seem to have mastered the fine art of riding a bike while holding an umbrella! That deserves respect.

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Crosmando: Japanese eroges are awesome PC games.
Maybe. I tried a bunch when I was studied Japanese some years back, and some of them were somewhat decent plot-wise. Never tried one with above serviceable mechanics though. Then again, if they would translate them, maybe I would give them a better chance, but I'm not bothering as it is.



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xa_chan: Oh, you're in Osaka! I live here! ^_^ But I just got back internet yesterday after one month...

I gave up a long time ago to look for PC games here. So, yes, I buy them on GOG... or on the French Steam page. Yes, I can still access my homecountry's Steam page and see the deals. Well, almost all the deals since for example DA:O Ultimate is invisible, since it has never been released in France (but a friend bought it on Steam UK and gifted it to me).

The only downside is that I have to pay with means that have an address in France. So I have to transfer some mony from my japanese paypal account to my french one, and with that to charge my steam wallet, otherwise I couldn't buy anything with a japanese credit card...
Well, I'm staying in Kyoto actually. No offense, but neither my friend nor I liked Osaka all that much, so we've just done a couple quick 'raids' there. Maybe we didn't go to the right places though, my friend wanted to check the otaku area around nipponbashi first and foremost. Any advice you want to share? I'll pay you for it, of course. Do you accept Deus Ex codes, or does it have to be a beer at some izakaya?

As for steam, it works weird. I can use paypal with a Spanish bank while saying I'm paying in Guatemala, because I was actually in Guatemala last year, but the front page is still stuck to Japanese. So you might not need the French address if you pay through paypal instead of directly with the bank card, and still pay in $. But activating the French steam wallet may be what allows you to buy from there... I don't know, steam acts as it wants pretty often, but it's worth looking into what works.


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HijacK: Japan is a very different market, and bother to implement different things there is a waste of money as you probably won't be even getting your time and money investment back.

The title of this thread is the equivalent of "What is PC gamers problem with consoles?" or "What is GOG's/Steam's problem with consoles?"
Nope, I don't agree. I can see the point of not making a PC version or a Japanese localized version, because you don't expect to break even on that investment. I might disagree, but it's still a reasonable reason not to make the version. What I'm pointing out here is: having a PC version already available, and not having to pay for distribution in Japan because it's a digital download, why would you go out of your way to say "nope Japan, you still can't buy it".
Post edited June 27, 2014 by P1na
Posted June 27, 2014
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P1na: Nope, I don't agree. I can see the point of not making a PC version or a Japanese localized version, because you don't expect to break even on that investment. I might disagree, but it's still a reasonable reason not to make the version. What I'm pointing out here is: having a PC version already available, and not having to pay for distribution in Japan because it's a digital download, why would you go out of your way to say "nope Japan, you still can't buy it".
DD does not simply mean "Here, we have this, just take it, it doesn't cost us anything to distribute it." As some people have stated above, DD companies do not want to negotiate with Japan branches of western publishers. Why don't they? Well, maybe they do have a good reason not too. And it's a lot more complicated than this. In this business analysts have to reach a certain standard on their research in order for a company to bother selling a game to a market that is not even interested in it. If analysts don't predict the game will sell the minimum x amount of copies, publishers won't bother. The same reason why many sequels of video games are cancelled.
Posted June 27, 2014
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bansama: (snip)
Publishers simply don't want PC gaming to become popular here. They go out of their way to marginalise it.
Maybe I got confused and it was some other game, but I had a hole the daily deals that day and when I checked it was from an Indie IIRC. Anyway, I was reminded of a lot of similar posts by you about this same topic, but reading about it and seeing it in person has a different impact of course. Seeing the PC games shelf set up separate from the other games, surrounded by TV series DVDs, and in the one place of the whole shop that was not visible from the entrance rubbed me the wrong way. I was similarly annoyed with steam because while I did expect it from Japanese devs, seeing western AAA games missing as well was unexpected. Having 4 out of 5 games of my wishlist locked in Japan during the steam sale is not helping, either.

Anyway, I do agree in that sentence I quoted from you, everything points to that. What I don't get is why. Why is EA japan not on steam, besides the "We like to be assholes" company policy? Do they make so much more money from console versions, despite the licensing fee on them? Is it piracy? Or just a self fulfilled profecy?

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bansama: And now you know why I am so grateful that GOG will refuse to sell games if they can't be sold worldwide. I'm sick of being told my money isn't good enough. Or when it is, that I should pay more just because.
While I generally agree with that feeling, I can't help but think I'd rather have the games released on GOG but restricted in Japan than not at all. Selfish, as it would not be fun for the folks here, but hey, at least a GOG version is cool to get a pirate installer of. Normally I wouldn't pirate a GOG game, but if they're refusing to sell it to me, I wouldn't think twice about it. But I digress.
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DalekSec: As basque, Im say to you that here ALL is overpriced, except salaries, that are between the lowest of Europe (but the prices & tases are between the highters).
Whoa, another Basque in GOG forums? Am I not the lone representative anymore?

Yay! We gotta celebrate. Want a Deus Ex copy?

And no need to convince me about prices there. I may not be living there ATM, but I'm quite used to it. Those Dragon Ball episodes were still extraordinarely expensive, though. Not that I regret buying them, mind you. Totally worth it.
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HijacK: DD does not simply mean "Here, we have this, just take it, it doesn't cost us anything to distribute it." As some people have stated above, DD companies do not want to negotiate with Japan branches of western publishers. Why don't they? Well, maybe they do have a good reason not too. And it's a lot more complicated than this. In this business analysts have to reach a certain standard on their research in order for a company to bother selling a game to a market that is not even interested in it. If analysts don't predict the game will sell the minimum x amount of copies, publishers won't bother. The same reason why many sequels of video games are cancelled.
Maybe they have a good reason, but I'd like to hear it. And until I do, I still think that allowing someone to buy a game digitally somewhere is plain better than not. Even if you only sell 1 copy, after taxes, currency conversion fees, and branch % or whatever, you still have some money. Which is always better than no money. I don't see the similarity to game sequels, which cost actual money to make and can have very reasonable arguments to not get made.
Post edited June 27, 2014 by P1na
Posted June 27, 2014
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P1na: Maybe they have a good reason, but I'd like to hear it. And until I do, I still think that allowing someone to buy a game digitally somewhere is plain better than not. Even if you only sell 1 copy, after taxes, currency conversion fees, and branch % or whatever, you still have some money. Which is always better than no money. I don't see the similarity to game sequels, which cost actual money to make and can have very reasonable arguments to not get made.
I'm not sure how taxes work in Japan, but I'm fairly certain big publishers have to pay Steam royalties to sell their game, so not sure how much money you can make if you sell a game, if at all. As long as we don't have the actual numbers, there's no point in questioning this. They won't give you and answer anyway. And as far as I'm concerned, if I was in Japan/lived in Japan and knew Japanese, consoles RPGs all the way!
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: I'm not sure how taxes work in Japan, but I'm fairly certain big publishers have to pay Steam royalties to sell their game, so not sure how much money you can make if you sell a game, if at all. As long as we don't have the actual numbers, there's no point in questioning this. They won't give you and answer anyway. And as far as I'm concerned, if I was in Japan/lived in Japan and knew Japanese, consoles RPGs all the way!
I could see steam asking for money to be in the front page or stuff like that. However, they are already doing that everywhere else in the world, and that leaves a hole on the page when you see it from Japan. I do not see valve going "yeah, if you want to see the game in Japan, gimme X$$". Then again, we don't really know, but not blocking the sale is stupid by my book. If there are procedural reasons that cause it to be blocked, then the procedures are also stupid.
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: You can't blame them for wanting to support Japanese devs. This goes beyond gaming and into world wide economics.
Yep, the Japanese economy depends on supporting their locals and the mentality there is quite nationalistic anyway, if we people here in Germany would act like this, we's be called out Nazis instantaniously, but our economy and culture is long lost anyway so who cares.
Post edited June 27, 2014 by Klumpen0815
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: Japan is a very different market, and bother to implement different things there is a waste of money as you probably won't be even getting your time and money investment back.

The title of this thread is the equivalent of "What is PC gamers problem with consoles?" or "What is GOG's/Steam's problem with consoles?"
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P1na: Nope, I don't agree. I can see the point of not making a PC version or a Japanese localized version, because you don't expect to break even on that investment. I might disagree, but it's still a reasonable reason not to make the version. What I'm pointing out here is: having a PC version already available, and not having to pay for distribution in Japan because it's a digital download, why would you go out of your way to say "nope Japan, you still can't buy it".
The comment about Japan being a very different market is kinda correct for PC games. But not for the reasons stated. It has long been an established pattern to sell PC games without Japanese localisation, and with just the manual translated into Japanese. Many PC gamers here are quite happy to play in English and, as with all things PC, some will just mod the language files and provide their own translation if demand is high enough.

As for the question as to why there is little to no negotiation with Japanese companies, it's simple. Language barrier. This is why some Japanese indie games are only available on Steam in Japan, or not available in Japan via the big DD sites at all. The sites won't communicate with developers in Japanese -- even those known to have Japanese speaking staff. And companies capable of doing it (such as the localiser of the product), often won't bother either unless pressured into doing so.

Why don't Japanese devs who can speak English attempt to get on Steam more often? Several reasons. The main being (based on comments of those who were there) that when Valve attended bit Summit they did little to ease concerns. Valve showed little interest in actually selling their products in Japan. Came off as inflexible on their cut, which many devs would have to share with a localisation company. Regional restrictions were a huge turn off. In addition to that, the way they are usually treated by the Steam community on Greenlight. Racist remarks, death threats, and so on.

Then even when prepared to go through all that and they get to the contract stage, Valve only send out contracts in English. Valve, a company worth billions, with Japanese speaking staff on the pay roll, can't even spend time and money drawing up contract in Japanese (or any other language I bet). This is unheard of in any other market. A contract in the local language is always drawn up (and these will always contain a clause stating that the original language document is the one to be used in the case of legal dispute). Both are then provided to the other party. Treasure got no Japanese contract. This is why their release on Steam was delayed. They had to pay for a credited translation themselves or attempt to understand the English one without aid. Valve did not help.

This also answers why EA Japan have no deal on Steam. Valve never approached them and they never felt capable of approaching Valve. Now Origin has taken off, it seems they have little need to bother with Steam. It also doesn't help that Valve can pretty much kill a release on Steam in Japan by demanding a CERO rating. Why is this a problem? CERO ratings are very expensive. Prohibitively so. If you're an indie dev, or have a small budget game and Valve say we need a CERO rating; that's it. Game is restricted as the cost would never be recuperated. Now here's the kicker -- which I already mentioned earlier -- CERO ratings are not mandatory for PC games. There is zero need to have a PC game submitted. And Valve know this. So why do they keep demanding CERO ratings from those incapable of paying for them!?

As for the comment about the difference in CERO rating being due to supporting the local economy, nope. The same happens to games released by Japanese publishers that were developed overseas. And if they really wanted to support locals, they'd cut costs so it was no longer CHEAPER to import than to buy local releases.
Posted June 27, 2014
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cw8: In Uncharted Waters, you explore the whole world, not just the Carribean or Europe.
That's I like too in High Seas Trader, not to focus on a region, but to travel all around the world.

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cw8: You do get the chance to get jobs to chart the unknown world and they pay you.
That's great! Thanks!

Well, another game (and series because if UW2 is interesting, I will have to play the first one too) in the backlog and wishlist ;-)


Closer to the topic, I think too it's a sad situation concerning japanese games and gamers, and even if it does concern 'only' video games, it is very questionable if we include video games in cultural content (and we should do, I believe).
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: You can't blame them for wanting to support Japanese devs. This goes beyond gaming and into world wide economics.
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Klumpen0815: Yep, the Japanese economy depends on supporting their locals and the mentality there is quite nationalistic anyway, if we people here in Germany would act like this, we's be called out Nazis instantaniously, but our economy and culture is long lost anyway so who cares.
Not sure how lost the economy is. Germany is among the strongest in Europe. The culture however is pretty much dead. Too many wars in too little of a time affected this.
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bansama: snip
Steam community sucks. Honestly, I really hate Valve and that puppet faggot called Gabe Newell. The dude's an arrogant bastard.
As for the games in general, I don't really see the problem to just sticking with importing. If anything, this is like a trade. The moderately big western community that wants to play all kinds of JRPGs exclusive to Japan had to import them for years. So people from Japan who want to play who knows what western game on PC can easily import it. Many stores that focus only on importing made quite some money because of this. Like PlayAsia.
Post edited June 27, 2014 by HijacK
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: Not sure how lost the economy is. Germany is among the strongest in Europe.
We pay all national income for paying of the interest of our debts and the national debts grow every year anyway and the interest of course too, it's a very vicious circle created by the reparations after those wars.
Strange thing is, that although this is the case, we still pay the biggest amounts for international charitiy (on the national level). Hell, we even paid billions on development aid to China until recently...

Regarding culture:
I do my part for keeping German martial arts and folk music alive, the stuff the Nazis had no time for because of their wars and now the modern Germans have no time for because of 40-60h underpaid work per week.
Post edited June 27, 2014 by Klumpen0815
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: Not sure how lost the economy is. Germany is among the strongest in Europe.
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Klumpen0815: We pay all national income for paying of the interest of our debts and the national debts grow every year anyway and the interest of course too, it's a very vicious circle created by the reparations after those wars.
Strange thing is, that although this is the case, we still pay the biggest amounts for international charitiy (on the national level). Hell, we even paid billions on development aid to China until recently...

Regarding culture:
I do my part for keeping German martial arts and folk music alive, the stuff the Nazis had no time for because of their wars and now the modern Germans have no time for because of 40-60h underpaid work per week.
I'm sad to hear that. Sounds like Romania's case after World War 2, but at least you did't have a huge part of your treasury "confiscated" by your former allies. I won't give names, but I'll just say the economic situation and theater in Europe is crap.
Posted June 27, 2014
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HijacK: at least you did't have a huge part of your treasury "confiscated" by your former allies
Well only by our former foes, but afterwards there is no big difference anyway as it seems, my singing teacher was Romanian and he told me some strange stories that reminded me of Poland in many ways.
Post edited June 27, 2014 by Klumpen0815
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)What is Japan's problem with PC games?(79 posts)(79 posts)
(79 posts)