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mqstout: Nope, not at all. Look at the phrase you included: "optional". And none of those require DRM. A lot of those things were in 3rd party clients/systems (see: XFire) before they were INTEGRATED into the Steam DRM system, where now people, sadly, think DRM is required for them.
Steamworks features aren't a part of the Steam DRM system. Games can easily detect that they're not available and not use them, and some DRM-free games on Steam do that.
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alecej: It doesn't apply now, but in the early days of copy protection even physically copying the disks was impossible. Manufacturers messed with the standard sectors on floppies for example. Naturally software came along that was able to clone floppies, but I remember not being able to back up some precious games.
Yes, you are right, I remember these days too)
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ejiki: I don't agree... DRM is just technical methods to control license fulfillment. GOG Games have a license and not have DRM, they a DRM-free, but neither free nor open software.
Online stores basically eradicated the publisher's greatest fear: second hand sales. 15 years ago you could buy a game, play it until you're done and then sell it for a third of the original price for example. Today you can't do that anymore.
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blotunga: Online stores basically eradicated the publisher's greatest fear: second hand sales. 15 years ago you could buy a game, play it until you're done and then sell it for a third of the original price for example. Today you can't do that anymore.
Yes, and I think it's quite unfair. But thats what license says(
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Tallima: That's exactly what DRM is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
(first paragraph and the RealNetworks, Inc. v. DVD Copy Control Association, Inc. case)
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StingingVelvet: I don't see the term DRM being used in that case at all, actually. I do see copy protection being used. So I'm not sure what you're driving at? Also it's no secret some people refer to a disc check as DRM, I'm simply disagreeing with those people. So even if the term DRM was used by lawyers in that case it wouldn't really change anything.
I understand you now. So you're not arguing that they're not managing their digital rights with copy protection, you're saying that it shouldn't be categorized as under the umbrella of what "Digital Rights Management" should be. So what is your definition or what should be under the umbrella? Items that could potentially interfere with the the game if the DRM fails?
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blotunga: And to be clear, even GOG isn't 100% DRM Free, but it's as close as it gets. True DRM free would be the ability to sell/give away your copy after being done with it. But of course that is one of the major reasons for DRM, not pirates.
You actually do have that option technically, it just isn't allowed. Don't forget the M in DRM - it's not so much about what rights you have, but to what extent the right holder is able to enforce any restrictions. You are not allowed to do everything you want with DRM-free media either, but the right holders can't directly prevent you from doing it (only by legal actions).
Post edited May 19, 2014 by Leroux
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Leroux: You actually do have that option technically, it just isn't allowed. Don't forget the M in DRM - it's not so much about what rights you have, but to what extent the right holder is able to enforce any restrictions. You are not allowed to do everything you want with DRM-free media either, but the right holders can't directly prevent you from doing it.
I've though the R in DRM is for Restrictions (j/k). They can't prevent it, but I also can't legally get rid of the games I don't want anymore.
That is the price we pay I guess for having cheaper games than 15 years ago. I couldn't imagine even today to pay 50+ euros for a game.
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blotunga: And to be clear, even GOG isn't 100% DRM Free, but it's as close as it gets. True DRM free would be the ability to sell/give away your copy after being done with it. But of course that is one of the major reasons for DRM, not pirates.
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ejiki: I don't agree... DRM is just technical methods to control license fulfillment. GOG Games have a license and not have DRM, they a DRM-free, but neither free nor open software.
I disagree here. GOG games are mostly DRM-free, but not completely. We still have games with instruction manual look-ups and some games where you need to ask for a serial number to be 100% functional (Neverwinter Nights comes to mind).

Although GOG provides everything to satisfy the DRM requirements, they are still necessary. If GOG went down today and you lost your NWN s/n, you could not play multiplayer. Or if GOG went down and you lost your manual, you could not play a few games with the instruction manual check.

Not super-strong DRM (and even admittedly NWN's DRM is formed from the basics of how multiplayer data is relayed, so it's purpose wasn't just DRM, it had a dual-purpose). But still a little sprinkling of DRM.
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blotunga: And to be clear, even GOG isn't 100% DRM Free, but it's as close as it gets. True DRM free would be the ability to sell/give away your copy after being done with it. But of course that is one of the major reasons for DRM, not pirates.
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Leroux: You actually do have that option technically, it just isn't allowed. Don't forget the M in DRM - it's not so much about what rights you have, but to what extent the right holder is able to enforce any restrictions. You are not allowed to do everything you want with DRM-free media either, but the right holders can't directly prevent you from doing it.
This is the best post in the thread.
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blotunga: Online stores basically eradicated the publisher's greatest fear: second hand sales. 15 years ago you could buy a game, play it until you're done and then sell it for a third of the original price for example. Today you can't do that anymore.
On the other hand it has been replaced by extreme sales and massive Steam/Origin/Uplay key selling and trading (e.g. people buying huge amounts of keys for very low prices in bundles, sales or cheaper markets and reselling them for prices only slightly higher than the discount prices, outside sales, all year).
Post edited May 19, 2014 by Leroux
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Tallima: Although GOG provides everything to satisfy the DRM requirements, they are still necessary. If GOG went down today and you lost your NWN s/n, you could not play multiplayer. Or if GOG went down and you lost your manual, you could not play a few games with the instruction manual check.
Which reminds me that I still haven't requested my MP key for NWN... I wish it would appear next to the downloadable stuff like for NWN2.
Post edited May 19, 2014 by blotunga
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Tallima: I disagree here. GOG games are mostly DRM-free, but not completely. We still have games with instruction manual look-ups and some games where you need to ask for a serial number to be 100% functional (Neverwinter Nights comes to mind).

Although GOG provides everything to satisfy the DRM requirements, they are still necessary. If GOG went down today and you lost your NWN s/n, you could not play multiplayer. Or if GOG went down and you lost your manual, you could not play a few games with the instruction manual check.

Not super-strong DRM (and even admittedly NWN's DRM is formed from the basics of how multiplayer data is relayed, so it's purpose wasn't just DRM, it had a dual-purpose). But still a little sprinkling of DRM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't looking up on manuals unnecessary? You can just type anything you want and the game will still proceed (Master of Orion asked for the names of ships, but no matter what you answer in the GOG version, it still gets it right.). And Neverwinter Nights is a bad example, because the servers are shutting down soon. (Do you even need a key to play on any unofficial servers?)
Post edited May 19, 2014 by Grargar
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Leroux: On the other hand it has been replaced by extreme sales and massive Steam/Origin/Uplay key selling and trading (e.g. people buying keys for very low prices in bundles, sales or cheaper markets and reselling them for prices only slightly higher than the dicount prices, and for all year).
Yes, though I don't trust key resellers, nor do I like trading game keys. In a way I'm happy with how things are (especially GOG). I'm a hoarder, so selling my games wouldn't be an option anyway. Still it is something that has to be kept in mind.
Very wide definition :

You have the functionality that you expect and have use of in the intended context. And then you have everything that has nothing to do with it => this second part is DRM.

Practical example :

For instance on gog, there is a DRM on getting the installer of the game you bought (you want the installer for the game, you have to log on gog which has nothing to do with installing the game).
Once the game is installed, you play it on your computer without anything else = DRM free game.

Edit : To be clear, I even consider putting ads in a free game some kind of DRM. And I am not against all forms of DRM (under my wide definition)
Post edited May 19, 2014 by Potzato
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Tallima: Although GOG provides everything to satisfy the DRM requirements, they are still necessary. If GOG went down today and you lost your NWN s/n, you could not play multiplayer. Or if GOG went down and you lost your manual, you could not play a few games with the instruction manual check.
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blotunga: Which reminds me that I still haven't requested my MP key for NWN... I wish it would appear next to the downloadable stuff like for NWN2.
I'm still playing my DVD version (you don't need the disc in the drive to play) so I'm still playing with those credentials. But I too should probably request my MP key for it. :)