Posted May 21, 2014
Maighstir
THIS KNIGHT MISLIKES THESE HEIGHTS
Maighstir Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From Sweden
Rusty_Gunn
I like big bots
Rusty_Gunn Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2013
From United States
Posted May 21, 2014
Maighstir: But it isn't. In several cases, it merely acts as a downloader and you can copy the game folder to another machine and play as you wish.
Downloading as a means to DRM the product though, forcing a download install even for a retail release. besides, personally I want download & installation as separate events (as they are with GOG) not at the same time.
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Posted May 21, 2014
mqstout: I'm calling them jerks for making my and even your life worse, by purchasing DRMed products, thus encouraging companies to use DRM, thus shitting on everyone's consumer rights.
Nonono, you're making your life worse by opting to not buy products with whatever you consider DRM. Principles are nice and all, but it's you who set them - don't whine if you chose to do so. Buying products with DRM = different standpoint on the matter. You are very much calling people jerks for disagreeing with you.
Actually all Steam does is to download the game. There's no proper installation process, just prerequisites.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by Fenixp
Maighstir
THIS KNIGHT MISLIKES THESE HEIGHTS
Maighstir Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From Sweden
Posted May 21, 2014
Rusty_Gunn: besides, personally I want download & installation as separate events (as they are with GOG) not at the same time.
Actually, any installation* done with Steam is done at the first launch of the game**, not on download. What you could call "installation" on download, is no different from extracting a zip archive to a single folder. * such as: registering DLL's, shoving files into system folders, setting up registry keys, or whatnot.
** For DRM-free titles copied to another machine, this can just as well be done by running the bundled prerequisites (installers for .NET Framework, DirectX, etc. Steam just runs those automagically when launching the game from within Steam).
Rusty_Gunn: Downloading as a means to DRM the product though, forcing a download install even for a retail release.
For Steam'd retail releases. Agreed.Post edited May 21, 2014 by Maighstir
Niggles
MOMOSaysMAHAYO;)
Niggles Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Australia
Posted May 21, 2014
Not this again.Sheesh
mqstout
Pittsburgh cis-gay-male
mqstout Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted May 21, 2014
Fenixp: Buying products with DRM = different standpoint on the matter. You are very much calling people jerks for disagreeing with you.
It's still not disagreeing. There's no opinion involved. It's perfectly objective. Stop for a moment to try to think abstractly. 1. It's unquestionable that DRM harms consumer rights.
2. Buying a DRMed product reinforces DRM as an acceptable thing for a publisher to do.
3. (Encouraging more DRM use.)
4. Thus, buying a DRMed product is an act of harming consumer rights for everyone, everywhere.
It's just like one should do his best to minimize harm to the environment; to let one's politicians know when you don't support a war, that they cannot say they speak for you; and so on. Being a good citizen minimizing my harmful impact on others.
ChrisSD
vita brevis
ChrisSD Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted May 21, 2014
So I'm confused again. Is requiring login to download a game DRM or not DRM?
JMich
A Horrible Human Person. If you need me, chat.
JMich Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2011
From Greece
Posted May 21, 2014
Two things.
1) What is DRM for you may not be DRM for others. So buying the very same product may count as "Supporting DRM" for you, while not for the one who buys it. So if someone doesn't see Steam as DRM, buying Steam only games doesn't harm you (according to him), while it does harm you according to you. Same can be said about console games.
2) There's a phrase that says "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". So, Exhibit A and Exhibit B (nothing to do with DRM, just wanted to link those articles).
GOG requires you to login to download. You tell me ;)
1) What is DRM for you may not be DRM for others. So buying the very same product may count as "Supporting DRM" for you, while not for the one who buys it. So if someone doesn't see Steam as DRM, buying Steam only games doesn't harm you (according to him), while it does harm you according to you. Same can be said about console games.
2) There's a phrase that says "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". So, Exhibit A and Exhibit B (nothing to do with DRM, just wanted to link those articles).
GOG requires you to login to download. You tell me ;)
Post edited May 21, 2014 by JMich
mqstout
Pittsburgh cis-gay-male
mqstout Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Posted May 21, 2014
mqstout: It's still not disagreeing. There's no opinion involved. It's perfectly objective. Stop for a moment to try to think abstractly.
As JMich pointed out, what is and what isn't DRM is up for debate. As this very thread proves. The further discussion lies in what people do and don't believe to genuinely be bad for consumer. By the way, I sure as heck hope you're not writing this from a Windows OS :-P Oh, good. So Half-Life 2, episodes, Transistor and most old games on Steam are DRM-free then :-P
Post edited May 21, 2014 by Fenixp
Leroux
Major Blockhead
Leroux Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2010
From Germany
Namur
Malkavian
Namur Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From Portugal
Posted May 21, 2014
No. It's only DRM if you are uncapable of telling apart procedures that target users and procedures that target files ot its usage.
Let's take GOG as an example. The login on GOG serves to establish your individuality ( meaning it's targetting you as an individual and not your files on GOG.COM) and grant you acess to the files you should have acess to. GOG's catalogue is a common pool or resources for all of its users, the Login serves to 'distribute' those resources accordingly.
IF the login procedure is bundled with file mananagemet sofware or similar (clients, downalodaers et all) then there's DRM at play but not by virtue of the Login but by virtue of the bundling.
DRM, if present, starts at delivery (download), the point at which you propose to start making use of your files. Login comes before that, targets you not your files, and serves to establish which files you're elegible to use in the first place.
Let's take GOG as an example. The login on GOG serves to establish your individuality ( meaning it's targetting you as an individual and not your files on GOG.COM) and grant you acess to the files you should have acess to. GOG's catalogue is a common pool or resources for all of its users, the Login serves to 'distribute' those resources accordingly.
IF the login procedure is bundled with file mananagemet sofware or similar (clients, downalodaers et all) then there's DRM at play but not by virtue of the Login but by virtue of the bundling.
DRM, if present, starts at delivery (download), the point at which you propose to start making use of your files. Login comes before that, targets you not your files, and serves to establish which files you're elegible to use in the first place.
Atlantico
Tower of Song
Atlantico Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Spain
Posted May 21, 2014
One thing is the copy protection. The copy protection scheme is old, very old and can be a disk copy protection or copy protection found in the manual, sometimes a code wheel and sometimes a serial number.
The entire point of the disk copy protection was to ensure the floppy disk behaved like a console cartridge. The game would be launched off the disk, like a cartridge, nothing else needed. No hard drive, no installations process. No copying either.
Installed games often used the copy protection through a manual or a serial number. Note that the same serial number could be used indefinitely on as many machines as you'd please and a manual could be copied - even silly codewheels or reflective paper.
That's one thing. Copy protection is passive and often little more than annoying, not restricting. It is supposed to dissuade, but can't enforce anything really. It is often mashed together these days under the DRM umbrella and sometimes, that is very fitting, but not always. The two can intersect, but they are not the same.
DRM is the bright idea that now godammit it's the 2000s and we are going to enforce our licence through various means. Not dissuade or persuade or make it annoying to circumvent the licence, but to actively *enforce* it. Directly.
That is D R M. You know when you feel it jammed unlubricated ... ahh you know where.
The entire point of the disk copy protection was to ensure the floppy disk behaved like a console cartridge. The game would be launched off the disk, like a cartridge, nothing else needed. No hard drive, no installations process. No copying either.
Installed games often used the copy protection through a manual or a serial number. Note that the same serial number could be used indefinitely on as many machines as you'd please and a manual could be copied - even silly codewheels or reflective paper.
That's one thing. Copy protection is passive and often little more than annoying, not restricting. It is supposed to dissuade, but can't enforce anything really. It is often mashed together these days under the DRM umbrella and sometimes, that is very fitting, but not always. The two can intersect, but they are not the same.
DRM is the bright idea that now godammit it's the 2000s and we are going to enforce our licence through various means. Not dissuade or persuade or make it annoying to circumvent the licence, but to actively *enforce* it. Directly.
That is D R M. You know when you feel it jammed unlubricated ... ahh you know where.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by Atlantico
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
amok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted May 21, 2014
personally I just zip the gamefolder. If you can do that and it still works on a different computer, then it is pretty DRM free in my books.
StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
StingingVelvet Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted May 21, 2014